Game of Thrones 1.10 - "Fire and Blood" - Rate and discuss

[WeAreTheBorg]

The girl who plays Arya was ~13 when the first season was filmed and her character is 9 or 10 in the books.

Yeah I looked her up and shes 14 now. She does look quite young, mammary development aside. Speaking of, the older sister (I can never remember her name) is supposed to be 13 in the show but also looks older than that. I guess they try to not have actors that are too young given the subject matter.

...something worth the price of killing the fucking hero of the show in the most insulting and meaningless way

Never seen ST:Generations then?

By the most, I don't mean comparing to other shows/movies (though it's high on that list as well), I just meant the most conceivable within the shows own context.

Last weeks twist left a bad taste in my mouth, but maybe that's because it was hanging open so long some dust got in there. I will have to wait and see next season if they can spin this yarn into something worth the price of killing the fucking hero of the show in the most insulting and meaningless way, but this episode didn't show me that yet.

Arya died?! Or was it Jon Snow? Syrio maybe? Tyrion? Brann? The dire wolves?

In fact, who's the hero of the show again? I didn't know there was just one.

Speaking as someone with no knowledge of the books, the TV adaptation clearly portrayed Ned Stark as the main protagonist. If it was Star Trek, he would be the captain. If its not so clear in the books I guess HBO played that up to make it more shocking. The promo posters and stuff all have him sitting on the throne etc.

 

[Skywalker]

A lot of people were sitting on the throne in the promotional material.

Given the buzz and discussion Ned's death has generated, I'd say HBO knew exactly what they were doing when they cast a big name like Sean Bean in the role.

 

[Kegg]

The books have basically the same idea. True, A Game of Thrones is told from the perspective of a series of different protagonists, but those protagonists are Arya, Bran, Catelyn, Daenerys, Eddard, Jon, Tyrion and Sansa.

In other words, one Lannister, one Targaryen, and almost the entire Stark family, with Ned at the head of that family. We have an ensemble and Ned is our lead and buh-bye Ned.

 

[Klaus]

I'm only partway through the first book, but all of the children are advanced in age from the book to the show.. Jon is only 14 in the book when he takes the black.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Yes, all the characters were basically aged up around 3 years in the show. This was accomplished by moving the 'current' time to 17 years from Roberts rebellion, instead of the 14 years of the book.

 

[Anwar]

They made them older so they could get away with Daenerys' nude scenes and the whole "Married off against her will" thing to a 30-something dude.

Of course, Jon's whiny angst in the first book makes more sense for a 13-year old than a 17 year old but you can't have everything.

 

[Scout101]

yeah, some of the scenes don't work as well with child actors being nude, beaten, essentially raped, etc. Not great on paper, pretty bad on screen.

Another consequence is Sansa now seems like a little bit of a late bloomer if she's 16 or 17 and not yet, uh, become a woman. At 13, that part makes more sense...

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

yeah, some of the scenes don't work as well with child actors being nude, beaten, essentially raped, etc. Not great on paper, pretty bad on screen.

I aged some of the characters up in my mind even when reading the books, so the TV show is actually closer to my mental image than if I'd imagined them at the ages GRRM gave them.

Another consequence is Sansa now seems like a little bit of a late bloomer if she's 16 or 17 and not yet, uh, become a woman. At 13, that part makes more sense...

Sophie Turner, who plays Sansa, is 15, but she looks a bit older since she's such a tall girl.

 

[Anwar]

She was 14 when they did the show, so I'm guessing Sansa is still supposed to be 13-14 years old.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Speaking as someone with no knowledge of the books, the TV adaptation clearly portrayed Ned Stark as the main protagonist. If it was Star Trek, he would be the captain. If its not so clear in the books I guess HBO played that up to make it more shocking. The promo posters and stuff all have him sitting on the throne etc.

That was pretty much HBO trying to be clever. They knew from the outset Ned was going to bite the dust. Promoted him as THE tony soprano type lead of the series so it would be more shocking when he died.
In the book I would say Ned feels more prominent, since he fits the hero archetype and is actively doing all the investigating/sparring in King's Landing, but as mentioned the whole book is rotating POVs by chapter, and Ned is just one of the POVs. Arya, Sansa, Jon, Tyrion, Catelyn, Dany, and Bran also have POV chapters.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

In the book I would say Ned feels more prominent, since he fits the hero archetype and is actively doing all the investigating/sparring in King's Landing, but as mentioned the whole book is rotating POVs by chapter, and Ned is just one of the POVs. Arya, Sansa, Jon, Tyrion, Catelyn, Dany, and Bran also have POV chapters.

Ned also has the most POV chapters in the book. He's one of eight POV characters (and one of nine if you include the prologue), but just over a fifth of the first book's chapters are from his POV. So the book treats him as the most important character of an ensemble dramatis personae, too.

 

[Kegg]

^
Also the focus of the early chapters, given the many Stark POVs. As I recall the first post-prologue POVs are Bran observing Ned Stark do something (killing the deserter) and then we get Catelyn talking to Ned Stark (about the arrival of the King and the death of Jon Arryn). Ned is anchoring our perspective long before we get to his first POV chapter, which is him and Robert in the family crypt.

yeah, some of the scenes don't work as well with child actors being nude, beaten, essentially raped, etc. Not great on paper, pretty bad on screen.

I aged some of the characters up in my mind even when reading the books, so the TV show is actually closer to my mental image than if I'd imagined them at the ages GRRM gave them.

The other advantage of aging them up is simply getting better actors. It's easier to find young adults or teenagers who can give strong dramatic performances than younger kids.

As far as fitting my mental image of the characters... the only one who never really fit was Kit Harrington as Jon Snow. The rest - especially Maisie Williams and John Bradley - matched my inner eye pretty uncannily.

Sophie Turner, who plays Sansa, is 15, but she looks a bit older since she's such a tall girl.

That's still a little old to not be menstruating though, no? This seems like a detail that doesn't fit the show's slightly older Sansa and would probably have been best dropped, or something, I don't know.

 

[backstept]

Spoiler: Big S2 casting rumor!

According to Den of Geek, the former 9th Doctor himself, actor Christopher Eccleston, is rumored to be currently lined up for a role in the second season of HBO's hit drama/fantasy series.

So what role could Chris Eccleston play IF (capital I, capital F) the rumors pan out to be true?

http://blastr.com/2011/06/rumor-of-the-day-game-of.php

oh man . . . I hope this turns out to be true

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

That's still a little old to not be menstruating though, no? This seems like a detail that doesn't fit the show's slightly older Sansa and would probably have been best dropped, or something, I don't know.

As Anwar said, she was 14 while filming the first season, and we can infer that the character is a little younger, perhaps 13. Anyway, the average age at when menstruation begins has dropped considerably over the ages. It's currently 11-13. Historical data is the source of same debate, but the average age may have been as high as 17 in the mid-19th Century. So, looking at the character in the kind of historical milieu she lives in, it's perhaps not a problem at all.

 

[Kegg]

. So, looking at the character in the kind of historical milieu she lives in, it's perhaps not a problem at all.

Fair enough, although, of course, she doesn't live in a historical milieu. That might seem a small point but I've seen even GRRM evoke 'back then' statements when discussing his made up South American-sized super-state kingdom with convenient geographic names for regional bastards.

Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire is great fantasy, more informed by history than quite a bit of the genre, but it is not part of any historical milieu.

Spoiler: Big S2 casting rumor!

According to Den of Geek, the former 9th Doctor himself, actor Christopher Eccleston, is rumored to be currently lined up for a role in the second season of HBO's hit drama/fantasy series.

So what role could Chris Eccleston play IF (capital I, capital F) the rumors pan out to be true?

http://blastr.com/2011/06/rumor-of-the-day-game-of.php

oh man . . . I hope this turns out to be true

Spoiler: Big Casting Speculation!

In the other thread the popular consensus appears to be Stannis, Robert Baratheon's brother and the man Ned Stark would have crowned King.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Fair enough, although, of course, she doesn't live in a historical milieu. That might seem a small point but I've seen even GRRM evoke 'back then' statements when discussing his made up South American-sized super-state kingdom with convenient geographic names for regional bastards.

Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire is great fantasy, more informed by history than quite a bit of the genre, but it is not part of any historical milieu.

That point occured to me just after I made the post. It's of course not an actual historical milieu, but it's nevertheless a fantasy analogue that draws heavily on certain aspects of actual human history. So it's not a stretch to think that certain developmental issues, such as the average age of the onset of menstruation, would correspond to human history. After all, by asking whether she's a bit old to be pre-menstrual is drawing on actual human experience, too, isn't it? Just because it's a fantasy world doesn't mean absolutely everything is detached from human experience, including the differences between modern life and life in a more primitive time.

 

[Kegg]

Just because it's a fantasy world doesn't mean absolutely everything is detached from human experience, including the differences between modern life and life in a more primitive time.

Oh quite. It's more of a quibble, but it's worth remembering the ways ASOIAF doesn't even vaguely resemble history when we get down that sidebar.

 

[WeAreTheBorg]

Sansa is stated to be 13 in the first episode of the show. She looks older, though.

 

[timothy]

found out we had free HBO this month so today ON HBO DEMAND I watched all ten episodes. all I gota say fucking awesome show. now that I've seen this show and can't wait till season 2 starts. I was wondering how close is season one to the books? because this weekend I bought all five books and plan to start them today.
all I was wondering about the book the hedge knight if it's relivent.

 

[Klaus]

Season One matches the first book... I'm into the third one now myself.