Galaxy Ratio

[Bry_Sinclair]

In TNG it was always a big thing that there were just over 1000 people onboard, including civilians. I've often wondered though, what is the crew/civilian ratio? 50/50, 60/40, 90/10?

The majority would be family members, but the ship also had a number of civilian contractors onboard (Guinan, Mott). So how many were onboard and how many were employed?

 

[Timo]

We could take note of the full complement of USS Hera (TNG "Interface"), a ship of supposed identical size if not design, and deduce that if she in normal peacetime conditions could run with the 800 people quoted, then at least 200 of those on the E-D would have been "passengers" of some sort. Not airtight evidence by any means, but better than nothing.

We saw two main lines of "civilian contractors": Guinan and his waiters, and the Bolian barbers. On the other hand, the kindergarden was run by a lady in uniform. Apparently, then, who does what is pretty random and beyond our powers to interpret or predict.

I'd further argue that a ship of this size only requires some 500 people to run and fight efficiently, as the average complement of the ships fighting at Wolf 359 appeared to be very low despite most of the wrecks being those of big ships. This wouldn't be a skeleton crew, mind you, but a regular combat operations crew sent to face the Borg back when everybody refused to believe that such a mission is suicide. But several hundred others (in or out of uniform) might be required to efficiently conduct an exploration mission, leaving only a couple of hundred slots free for family and passengers.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

We could take note of the full complement of USS Hera (TNG "Interface"), a ship of supposed identical size if not design, and deduce that if she in normal peacetime conditions could run with the 800 people quoted, then at least 200 of those on the E-D would have been "passengers" of some sort. Not airtight evidence by any means, but better than nothing.

I did always find the small Hera crew (for a supposedly Nebula-Class ship) to be a little odd, but there are several explanations that could be used to cover that.

We saw two main lines of "civilian contractors"

I use that term in my head for the civvies that work on starships, seeing as how they don't appear to be related to anyone onboard, but have specific functions but aren't in uniform.

Guinan and his waiters

Do you know somethign we don't Timo?

On the other hand, the kindergarden was run by a lady in uniform. Apparently, then, who does what is pretty random and beyond our powers to interpret or predict.

True. When Alexander comes to the E-D his teacher is a civilian woman, then the teacher seen in "Hero Worship" is a male civilian. I think it was a mistake to have the nursery teacher as a Starfleeter, a course on childcare at the Academy seems pretty weird to me.

I'd further argue that a ship of this size only requires some 500 people to run and fight efficiently

I would agree with that as well, after all the backbone of the fleet (Excelsior-Class) has a crew over around 500. Though I find it strange that Starfleet would have provisions for an equal amount of civilians onboard ships--they are active ships, that would face combat and dangerous situations.

Also not everyone would have a family, and those that did not all would be happy about life on a starship.

 

[Timo]

It seems as if the Galaxy would have provisions for significantly more "passengers" than for "crew". Not only does the ship accommodate five thousand people in the alternate universe with the Klingon war, but the sheer volume evident from the outside would seem to imply the ability to house thousands upon thousands in luxury.

The choice to have, say, 500 extras to 500 active crew may be specific to the Enterprise - the Yamato might have had 900 active crew and 100 traveling caterers, while the Odyssey might have embarked 300 crew and carried a cavalry regiment with a thousand Arcturan were-horses for all we know. That is, we seem to be faced with great flexibility rather than any sort of measurable "requirements" in this respect.

Do you know somethign we don't Timo?

Whoopie. Comes from having a gender-neutral native tongue and thinking about that male character from "Lower Decks" as the one specific example of Guinan's staff...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Verteron]

The majority would be family members, but the ship also had a number of civilian contractors onboard (Guinan, Mott). So how many were onboard and how many were employed?

It always seemed to me that while officers (and maybe crewmen) were allowed to bring their families along, only a minority actually choose to do so.

Crusher brought along Wesley and Worf brought along Alexander (both single parents), there was also Marla and Jeremy Aster from memory, but I can't recall others. The school room would have to be a lot bigger for a population of 1000 if the percentage of children was anything near the level in the normal population, which is around one quarter. It seems to me there may be at most 20 kids on board (one schoolroom's worth), certainly not 250.

My guess is that most Starfleet volunteers with partners who live on planets or space stations (who would almost certainly have their own careers in the 24thC!) get left behind to raise the kids. It's only those with both parents on ships or single parent families where the kids get dragged along for the ride.

As for other family members, I don't recall ever seeing any crewperson who'd brought along a civilian partner where children weren't involved. Can anyone else?

Anyway, my point is that I don't think there are many families on the Enterprise. While it's allowed, I'm guessing the numbers aren't that big, maybe a hundred at most.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I've long favored the idea that the Enterprise-D had about 200 passengers and 800 actual crewmembers. But I also think the ratio wasn't the same aboard other Galaxy-class ships too.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

It doesn't look like the ratio was ever established on the show, but it did appear in two high-profile sources. As you know, David Gerrold was the primary writer of the Season One TNG writers' guide (series bible), which established the overall count of 1012. He also wrote the novelization of "Encounter at Farpoint", and I quote from the Kindle edition:

The Enterprise had a larger crew complement than any of the other starships in the fleet—but the eight hundred included scientists and technicians of many types. The actual ship's operation crew was probably no larger than that aboard the old Constitution-class starships. There were also some two hundred noncrew aboard—spouses and children.

(According to Larry Nemecek's TNG Companion, an earlier version of the writers' guide, dated February 4, 1987, gave a crew of 907, so this total of 800 was probably left unrevised by accident. Still, it gives us a good idea of the intended ratio.)

The other source is the SciPubTech poster, which provides a detailed breakdown of 185 officers, 575 enlisted crew and 252 civilians = 1012. I'm not sure if this is consistent with the above by accident, but it is possible to check with the authors. They've often consulted with the Star Trek art department, so these numbers could've conceivably come from there.

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

Set disrupters on the kindergarten

 

[Ian Keldon]

It doesn't look like the ratio was ever established on the show, but it did appear in two high-profile sources. As you know, David Gerrold was the primary writer of the Season One TNG writers' guide (series bible), which established the overall count of 1012. He also wrote the novelization of "Encounter at Farpoint", and I quote from the Kindle edition:

The Enterprise had a larger crew complement than any of the other starships in the fleet—but the eight hundred included scientists and technicians of many types. The actual ship's operation crew was probably no larger than that aboard the old Constitution-class starships. There were also some two hundred noncrew aboard—spouses and children.

(According to Larry Nemecek's TNG Companion, an earlier version of the writers' guide, dated February 4, 1987, gave a crew of 907, so this total of 800 was probably left unrevised by accident. Still, it gives us a good idea of the intended ratio.)

The other source is the SciPubTech poster, which provides a detailed breakdown of 185 officers, 575 enlisted crew and 252 civilians = 1012. I'm not sure if this is consistent with the above by accident, but it is possible to check with the authors. They've often consulted with the Star Trek art department, so these numbers could've conceivably come from there.

I've always favored a split somewhere between 80/20 and 90/10 give or take. The Sovereign is thought to have the same operational crew levels, just without the provision for civilians on board, and it's crew is generally thought to be in the 8-900 range.

Going back to the original story notes way back in TNG S1, it must be remembered that the Galaxy class was way overbuilt in terms of available deckspace. This was because the ships were as much self-mobile starbases as they were anything else. The original concepts from Probert even included a Promenade-style "mall".

I suspect (admittedly I have no way to prove it, this is just my theory) that the 1,012 mostly-crew number was a minimal complement. If any of the Galaxy-s had actually gone on the planned 20-year deep space missions originally conceived, that number could have doubled or a little bit more and still had plenty of "spare" room.

 

[Timo]

The Sovereign is thought to have the same operational crew levels, just without the provision for civilians on board, and it's crew is generally thought to be in the 8-900 range.

Looks might deceive, though. It's not as if the Reliant was indicated to cater for families - yet the similar Saratoga a century later did have numerous civilians aboard. "Provision for civilians" could be a triviality, such as leaving a few doors unlocked so that kids who can't operate locks (or reach them) can still inhabit the spaces.

If any of the Galaxy-s had actually gone on the planned 20-year deep space missions originally conceived, that number could have doubled or a little bit more and still had plenty of "spare" room.

Quite probably so. Which makes one wonder about the complement of the E-D in "Encounter at Farpoint". In that episode, the ship was indeed supposed to sail past the outermost support base and start exploring the unexplored. Later during the season, it was made clear that the ship in fact stayed close to UFP support assets - perhaps Starfleet read Picard's report on the encounter with Q and decided to cancel the exploration mission just as Q had demanded? But during the pilot episode, the ship should still have been stocked for the exploration sortie, or received the missing gear and personnel at Farpoint. Was the complement at that time a thousand people - or ten thousand?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Looks might deceive, though. It's not as if the Reliant was indicated to cater for families - yet the similar Saratoga a century later did have numerous civilians aboard. "Provision for civilians" could be a triviality, such as leaving a few doors unlocked so that kids who can't operate locks (or reach them) can still inhabit the spaces.

Well by the mid-2360s many of the original systems and tech would have been streamlined and automated, thus opening up interior space--in order to accommodate classrooms, public spaces, etc for civilians.

 

[Timo]

In the 2260s already, such spaces would seem to be quite available, even if somewhat differently allocated. The recreation rooms of the TOS ship appeared to be huge, with Rec Room Three spanning three decks (perhaps the precursor to the facility we saw in TMP?), and with multiple smaller communal spaces available. The Starnes kids were easily accommodated, and we saw 114 diplomats getting a comfortable ride, too. Quite a bit of flexibility would have been there in TOS already, then - and it would be a simple matter of policy to allocate that to longterm accommodation of families.

We never really heard that having families aboard starships would be impossible or unheard of in any of the Trek eras, not as such. All we learned was that Picard hadn't had kids aboard his previous ships, and as far as we know, he only had one such previous ship in his CV. While Kirk's ship didn't seem to hold longterm civilians, there's no telling whether Pike's or Decker's did...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[darcy165]

It seems as if the Galaxy would have provisions for significantly more "passengers" than for "crew". Not only does the ship accommodate five thousand people in the alternate universe with the Klingon war, but the sheer volume evident from the outside would seem to imply the ability to house thousands upon thousands in luxury.

The choice to have, say, 500 extras to 500 active crew may be specific to the Enterprise - the Yamato might have had 900 active crew and 100 traveling caterers, while the Odyssey might have embarked 300 crew and carried a cavalry regiment with a thousand Arcturan were-horses for all we know. That is, we seem to be faced with great flexibility rather than any sort of measurable "requirements" in this respect.

Do you know somethign we don't Timo?

Whoopie. Comes from having a gender-neutral native tongue and thinking about that male character from "Lower Decks" as the one specific example of Guinan's staff...

Timo Saloniemi

thank you