Future Trek on TV.

[Temis the Vorta]

Caprica may have failed, but shows like the Doctor Who franchise are still going strong. (Although there was a dip in ratings after Tennant and RTD left). I'd say that has some space opera elements, as there's the whole going to distant worlds thing as well as time travel.

Neither of those amount to a blip in the big pool of American TV. (And neither does SGU, assuming it survives much longer.) Space opera is for all intents a dead genre.

I disagree. Star Trek 2009 had strong box office showing. For all its flaws, I and many people enjoyed it. You put together a team to create a TV series that can tell compelling stories, set in the Star Trek universe, people will watch. For me, I was not crazy about the fx, and some of the sets, but the people kept me interested. Well except for Nero. If people watch the show for the story and characters, not the eye candy, it will succeed. Take TOS for example, people still watch it. New people become fans everyday. Even with it's outdated sets and effects, the stories and characters still speak to people. The same is true for much of TNG, DS9, some of Voyager and Enterprise. I think they went wrong when they lost site of the story and characters and focused so much on the setting. The same thing that Lucas focused on for his prequel trilogy.

Sorry, I should have said space opera is dead on TV. Movies are a completely different business model and won't tell you anything about the TV biz. Rerun ratings don't count. I'm enjoying Clone Wars - definitely not a show that's just for kids - but good ratings on the Cartoon Network don't mean anything to CBS.

Even Lucas has now acknowledged that you can't do movie like FX on a TV budget.

The fact that even Lucas with his three billion dollar empire doesn't think there's a viable way to do live-action space opera on TV is the most damning thing of all. The only mitigating factor is that he's probably thinking that he has to have explosions up the wazoo (live action Clone Wars) and that's not at all true for Star Trek or even for Star Wars if you had writers who can deliver good stories that don't depend on explosions for their entertainment value.

Have the stories & characters in those shows been good? If they were, like Firefly, did they get screwed by the stupid network?

Recent space opera examples are all over the map:

BSG - great show, skiffy treated it ok I guess. Survived four years.

Caprica - interesting potential, meandering focus, viewers got bored/confused. Skiffy's musical-chairs scheduling didn't help. Cancelled.

SGU - horrible excuse for a show, should be killed with fire. Bad ratings. Last I heard, not cancelled.

Clone Wars - lots better than I thought it would be; I'd like it better if it weren't sanitized/simplified so it would appeal to all ages, but it's still enjoyable. Strong ratings by Cartoon Network standards, appears to be treated with respect by its network.

Futurama - kicked around and dissed by Fox, but it won't die and came back on Cartoon Network. Ratings are respectable.

So all you can conclude by that roster is that space opera struggles to survive on TV, is nonexistent on broadcast networks, and does best in the low-cost animated format where low ratings can still represent a solid return on investment. Plus, space battles are always popular and if you want to survive, don't bore the audience.