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Future of Trek at Pocket Books

^Yeah, but it's misleading to call that having the license at the same time, because it implies a parity that doesn't exist. Bantam and Ballantine's reprint rights aren't a license per se, they're just a legacy of the licenses they used to have.
I disagree with that. A license is a license, regardless of the nature of it. For example, both Playmates and Diamond Select both had licenses to produce Star Trek toys at the same time, even though the nature and extent of the toys were different. There's nothing misleading about Pocket and Bantam both publishing Trek books at one point, especially when I said from the start the latter was doing reprints.
 
If the license were ever to leave Pocket, what would be the chances of authors following to a new publisher? Are book contracts bookwise, or do authors get tied to publishers in some way that would prevent them from writing TrekLit for the new license holder?

They are freelancers and therefore can write for whoever they want.

ETA: Saw your follow-up after I posted: I'm not sure such a clause would be legal as long as the new license holder is the only place to sell Star Trek stories to, as it would cut off one stream of revenue from the author. I guess it would be possible if CBS would decide to give a license to different publishers at the same time (a la WWE's 90 day no-compete clause for other televised/taped wrestling events for their released wrestlers).
 
Aye, sure, I know TrekLit authors write books for other publishers. But if I were an evil and cunning TrekLit license holder, I might want to draw up contracts for my TrekLit authors that include some sort of TrekLit-specific non-compete clause, so the license giver is less likely to move the license when the next renegotiation comes up because it will mean losing the authors fans want to buy books from.

I'm sure there's a Rule of Acquisition for it.

An unwritten rule may be that the stables of Trek authors and Wars don't mix or play with each other (just with themselves, stop that). We're all owned by National amusements here in America. I don't know what the German equivelant to that is though, Sho. :guffaw:
 
Aye, sure, I know TrekLit authors write books for other publishers. But if I were an evil and cunning TrekLit license holder, I might want to draw up contracts for my TrekLit authors that include some sort of TrekLit-specific non-compete clause, so the license giver is less likely to move the license when the next renegotiation comes up because it will mean losing the authors fans want to buy books from.

I'm sure there's a Rule of Acquisition for it.

No, there's no rule like this.

When Doctor Who books went from Virgin to BBC Books, it was all the same authors-- you want someone familiar with the property.
 
Thanks guys.

The other thing I'm wondering is to what degree a license holder achieves ownership over the content produced. For example, CBS obviously owns the Star Trek brand, and, say, Captain Kirk. But what of characters unique to Pocket TrekLit, or the Typhon Pact concept and label? Would those transfer to a new publisher?
 
Thanks guys.

The other thing I'm wondering is to what degree a license holder achieves ownership over the content produced. For example, CBS obviously owns the Star Trek brand, and, say, Captain Kirk. But what of characters unique to Pocket TrekLit, or the Typhon Pact concept and label? Would those transfer to a new publisher?

Check the copyright on a given Star Trek novel. That tells you who owns every character and Star Trek trademark that appears in the novel.
 
For the record: CBS retains all ownership of Star Trek and Star Trek trademarks and characters. However, Paramount Pictures over at Viacom retains ownership of the Star Trek feature films, and therefore shares ownership with CBS of derivative works and their contents which are based upon the films. But CBS would retain ownership of original novel characters -- so if, say, Tor got the license for DS9 novels, they could use Elias Vaughn.

ETA:

This is different over in Great Britain, though. Not only do the authors of novels based upon TV shows retain copyright ownership of their novels (in the same way that Paramount retains ownership of the Star Trek films even without owning Star Trek), and either the authors or the licensees (I'm not sure which) retain ownership of original characters. So, if I understand things correctly, Paul Cornell owns the copyright to the Doctor Who novel Human Nature, and either Cornell or Virgin own Cornell's original character Bernice Summerfield (who started off as a novel-original companion of the Doctor), which is why Virgin was able to turn its Doctor Who New Adventures line of novels into a line about Bernice and keep publishing about her even after the Doctor Who license switched over to BBC Books. (Someone correct me if I got any details wrong.)
 
Aye, sure, I know TrekLit authors write books for other publishers. But if I were an evil and cunning TrekLit license holder, I might want to draw up contracts for my TrekLit authors that include some sort of TrekLit-specific non-compete clause, so the license giver is less likely to move the license when the next renegotiation comes up because it will mean losing the authors fans want to buy books from.

I'm sure there's a Rule of Acquisition for it.

No, there's no rule like this.

When Doctor Who books went from Virgin to BBC Books, it was all the same authors-- you want someone familiar with the property.
And a lot of the authors who wrote Star Wars novels for Bantam Spectra, now write for Del Rey.
And David Gerrold has done Trek stuff for both Bantam and Pocket.
 
So Harlin Ellison doesn't own the Gaurdian of Forever or Matheson the MU with it's various assorted evil logos. CBS owns the Trek logo trademark. So if I put that shirt insignia logo thing on my car, is that legal?
 
either Cornell or Virgin own Cornell's original character Bernice Summerfield (who started off as a novel-original companion of the Doctor), which is why Virgin was able to turn its Doctor Who New Adventures line of novels into a line about Bernice and keep publishing about her even after the Doctor Who license switched over to BBC Books. (Someone correct me if I got any details wrong.)

That's substantially correct, but I'm pretty sure it's Cornell alone who owns the Bernice character; Big Finish licenses the character from Cornell to do their Bernice Summerfield audioplays, and in all the various discussions of this I've heard or read about, I don't think they've ever mentioned Virgin as rights holders at all.
 
So Harlin Ellison doesn't own the Gaurdian of Forever or Matheson the MU with it's various assorted evil logos.

Correct. Harlan Ellison does not own the Guardian of Forever, and Matheson does not own the Mirror Universe or its logos.

However, depending on the specific contents of his contract as a freelancer on TOS, Ellison may have the legal right to receive royalties if the Guardian is ever used in a future TV episode or film. That is not the same thing as actually owning the character, however -- think of it as being like how TV actors get royalties every time an episode they're in airs, even if they don't own the character they play.

(A few years ago, Ellison became upset to hear that the Guardian and Edith Keeler appeared in the Crucible novels without his permission, and sued, seeking royalties, arguing that this entitlement to royalties extended to derivative novels. Last I heard, I think CBS settled out of court rather than have the court issue a ruling one way or another. But, again, being entitled to royalties is not the same thing as actually owning the copyright.)

CBS owns the Trek logo trademark. So if I put that shirt insignia logo thing on my car, is that legal?
No, it is not. Not unless you obtain a license to do so from CBS.

However, more likely than not, CBS won't care enough to have the law enforced.

either Cornell or Virgin own Cornell's original character Bernice Summerfield (who started off as a novel-original companion of the Doctor), which is why Virgin was able to turn its Doctor Who New Adventures line of novels into a line about Bernice and keep publishing about her even after the Doctor Who license switched over to BBC Books. (Someone correct me if I got any details wrong.)

That's substantially correct, but I'm pretty sure it's Cornell alone who owns the Bernice character; Big Finish licenses the character from Cornell to do their Bernice Summerfield audioplays, and in all the various discussions of this I've heard or read about, I don't think they've ever mentioned Virgin as rights holders at all.

Ah, thanks! I wasn't sure if it was Cornell or Virgin who owned Bernice, so I hedged my bets with an "or." I knew that BBC doesn't own the character, though.

ETA:

These differences in copyright extend to the show itself, too. The Terry Nation Estate (and, before he died, Terry Nation himself) and the BBC co-own the Daleks, and without the Estate's approval, the Daleks can never appear on Doctor Who. That's why, every time they appear, Nation receives a credit in the closing titles. (However, weirdly enough, while the Nation Estate co-owns the Daleks themselves along with the BBC, the BBC owns the design for the Daleks exclusively.)
 
So Harlin Ellison doesn't own the Gaurdian of Forever or Matheson the MU with it's various assorted evil logos.

Correct. Harlan Ellison does not own the Guardian of Forever, and Matheson does not own the Mirror Universe or its logos.

Especially since "Mirror, Mirror" was written by Jerome Bixby, not Richard Matheson! :)
 
And David Gerrold has done Trek stuff for both Bantam and Pocket.

That's a special case, because the only thing Gerrold wrote for Pocket was the "Encounter at Farpoint" novelization, and Gerrold was in fact an uncredited co-creator of TNG, one of the original development team along with Roddenberry, D. C. Fontana, and Bob Justman. So it's not quite your typical tie-in author's situation.


So Harlin Ellison doesn't own the Gaurdian of Forever or Matheson the MU with it's various assorted evil logos.

Even if creators did retain ownership, there's no reason Richard Matheson would own the Mirror Universe, since Jerome Bixby created it. (EDIT: Oops, Greg beat me to it.)

And the scriptwriter usually doesn't create the logos; that's the job of the show's art department. The logos would be trademarks of Paramount (or now CBS), most likely.


So if I put that shirt insignia logo thing on my car, is that legal?

You can buy bumper stickers and clothing with various Star Trek logos on them (for instance, I have a UFP baseball cap), so yes, it's legal to display the show's trademarked logos on your clothing or car. What would be illegal would be to manufacture and sell your own bootleg Star Trek merchandise.


However, depending on the specific contents of his contract as a freelancer on TOS, Ellison may have the legal right to receive royalties if the Guardian is ever used in a future TV episode or film. That is not the same thing as actually owning the character, however -- think of it as being like how TV actors get royalties every time an episode they're in airs, even if they don't own the character they play.

(A few years ago, Ellison became upset to hear that the Guardian and Edith Keeler appeared in the Crucible novels without his permission, and sued, seeking royalties, arguing that this entitlement to royalties extended to derivative novels. Last I heard, I think CBS settled out of court rather than have the court issue a ruling one way or another. But, again, being entitled to royalties is not the same thing as actually owning the copyright.)

My understanding, for what it's worth, is that his suit against Crucible wasn't about the use of the characters and concepts so much as it was about the quoting of verbatim dialogue from the episode script. Ellison's suit also covered a Hallmark Guardian ornament that played audio clips from the episode. His argument (if I understand it correctly) was that he was entitled to residuals for the use of excerpts from the script/episode, just as he would be if clips from the episode had been incorporated into a later episode.


These differences in copyright extend to the show itself, too. The Terry Nation Estate (and, before he died, Terry Nation himself) and the BBC co-own the Daleks, and without the Estate's approval, the Daleks can never appear on Doctor Who. That's why, every time they appear, Nation receives a credit in the closing titles.

That's also why the original series had a couple of long gaps where the Daleks didn't appear for years at a time -- because Nation had withdrawn his approval for their use on the show. I think the first time was when he was trying to sell a Dalek series in the US.


(However, weirdly enough, while the Nation Estate co-owns the Daleks themselves along with the BBC, the BBC owns the design for the Daleks exclusively.)

A similar situation exists with the character of K9, the Doctor's robot-dog companion from the '80s, who's also shown up in the revival series and the spinoff The Sarah Jane Adventures. The character is owned by his creators Bob Baker & Dave Martin, and they licensed the K9 character to Australian TV, which produced a K9 series in 2009 (and has a second season in development). But they don't own the rights to anything else specific to Doctor Who, and they don't own the rights to K9's original design, so they had to have the character lose his memory and "regenerate" into a radically altered appearance the moment he first appeared. (However, the original actor, John Leeson, still voices the character in the Australian show.)
 
Sci said:
These differences in copyright extend to the show itself, too. The Terry Nation Estate (and, before he died, Terry Nation himself) and the BBC co-own the Daleks, and without the Estate's approval, the Daleks can never appear on Doctor Who. That's why, every time they appear, Nation receives a credit in the closing titles.
That's also why the original series had a couple of long gaps where the Daleks didn't appear for years at a time -- because Nation had withdrawn his approval for their use on the show. I think the first time was when he was trying to sell a Dalek series in the US.
That's not quite correct.

It is true that the Daleks didn't appear between "Evil" and "Day" because of Nation's desire to sell an American network on a Daleks television series. But Nation didn't withdraw his approval for their use, per se. Rather, Innes Lloyd and David Whitaker decided to write out the Daleks with "Evil" because Terry Nation wanted to take his toys elsewhere, and since they now had the Cybermen to play with and they didn't have to pay someone else for their use, they didn't really need the Daleks. Effectively, yes, the Daleks weren't in Doctor Who for five years because Terry Nation went to Hollywood, but their absence wasn't because Nation didn't want them in Doctor Who anymore.

Once the Daleks returned to Doctor Who, Nation's attitude was, "Oh, you want to use the Daleks? I'm too busy and someone else is writing it? Make sure I get to see the scripts, make sure you credit me, and make sure you pay me." This was good and fine until "Remembrance" where Nation felt that JNT didn't hold to the letter of that agreement by not sending him the final final scripts, which led to Nation stating that the Daleks would never appear in a BBC production again, a stance that his estate was perfectly happy to endorse after his death. His estate was fine with licensing them to Big Finish because they were a small company, but when Russell T. Davies came knocking they said no. They changed their mind eventually; I suspect that they realized that the Daleks needed Doctor Who more than Doctor Who needed the Daleks.

Sci said:
(However, weirdly enough, while the Nation Estate co-owns the Daleks themselves along with the BBC, the BBC owns the design for the Daleks exclusively.)

A similar situation exists with the character of K9, the Doctor's robot-dog companion from the '80s, who's also shown up in the revival series and the spinoff The Sarah Jane Adventures. The character is owned by his creators Bob Baker & Dave Martin, and they licensed the K9 character to Australian TV, which produced a K9 series in 2009 (and has a second season in development). But they don't own the rights to anything else specific to Doctor Who, and they don't own the rights to K9's original design, so they had to have the character lose his memory and "regenerate" into a radically altered appearance the moment he first appeared. (However, the original actor, John Leeson, still voices the character in the Australian show.)
The designs for the Daleks and K-9 are owned by the BBC because the BBC art staff designed the props. It's been pointed out that the BBC could use the Dalek props in a story in which they're not called Daleks, they're not homicidal, and they speak with squeaky voices and the Nation estate couldn't do a damned thing about it. Likewise, RTD thought about having K-9 upside down as a table in Christopher Eccleston's TARDIS but he ultimately decided against it.
 
If the license were ever to leave Pocket, what would be the chances of authors following to a new publisher? ... do authors get tied to publishers in some way that would prevent them from writing TrekLit for the new license holder?

David Gerrold and Marshak & Culbreath wrote for both Bantam and Pocket. Alan Dean Foster wrote for Ballantine and Pocket.

That's a special case, because the only thing Gerrold wrote for Pocket was the "Encounter at Farpoint" novelization

Well, he did propose "The Space Vampire" as a ST novel for Pocket, but rejected the contract as not being generous enough, royalty-wise.
 
This is different over in Great Britain, though. Not only do the authors of novels based upon TV shows retain copyright ownership of their novels (in the same way that Paramount retains ownership of the Star Trek films even without owning Star Trek), and either the authors or the licensees (I'm not sure which) retain ownership of original characters. So, if I understand things correctly, Paul Cornell owns the copyright to the Doctor Who novel Human Nature, and either Cornell or Virgin own Cornell's original character Bernice Summerfield (who started off as a novel-original companion of the Doctor), which is why Virgin was able to turn its Doctor Who New Adventures line of novels into a line about Bernice and keep publishing about her even after the Doctor Who license switched over to BBC Books. (Someone correct me if I got any details wrong.)

That's not strictly true. The situation you're discussing here is a rare case, it's not the usual circumstance for people writing tie-ins in the UK to own characters they create. It all depends on the contract you sign.
 
This is different over in Great Britain, though. Not only do the authors of novels based upon TV shows retain copyright ownership of their novels (in the same way that Paramount retains ownership of the Star Trek films even without owning Star Trek), and either the authors or the licensees (I'm not sure which) retain ownership of original characters. So, if I understand things correctly, Paul Cornell owns the copyright to the Doctor Who novel Human Nature, and either Cornell or Virgin own Cornell's original character Bernice Summerfield (who started off as a novel-original companion of the Doctor), which is why Virgin was able to turn its Doctor Who New Adventures line of novels into a line about Bernice and keep publishing about her even after the Doctor Who license switched over to BBC Books. (Someone correct me if I got any details wrong.)

That's not strictly true. The situation you're discussing here is a rare case, it's not the usual circumstance for people writing tie-ins in the UK to own characters they create. It all depends on the contract you sign.

Really? Fair enough, then -- I was under the impression that was the standard, especially since every Doctor Who book I've seen has had the copyright given to the author rather than the BBC.
 
Can you own a planet and insist that the people on that planet can only be tortured as per your contract or if you own a character, do you have any say in how she/he/it is developed? I said elsewhere once that this is why nobody ever went back to Shermans planet again. Kinda sad really. Like with tv, new producers, new everything, even the good things have to be tossed to make way for new designers to make a buck. Will we ever see Ralph McQuarrie's gorgeous design for the Phase II Enterprise? Probably not, and especially since he's now past. Pathetic and greedy.
 
Can you own a planet and insist that the people on that planet can only be tortured as per your contract or if you own a character, do you have any say in how she/he/it is developed?


It all depends on your contract. That's the operative phrase- "your contract".

Usually the licence holder retains the exclusive rights to everything. In the Dr Who books (at least on my contracts) Virgin/the BBC retained the right to use any character/alien/organisation/planet/whatever in another DW book, but all other rights to them remained with me.

And then, of course, even those rights can vary (depending on your contract) if the character/planet/etc was created for that particular tie-in, or had previously appeared elsewhere - and what the contract for the elsewhere had said....

There are doubtless all manner of oddities and exceptions to the usual rules, depending on the property, the licence holder, the copyright owner(s), which legal guidelines were in force that week, etc etc. But, in the end, you sort of answered your own question - yes, it all boils down to what's in *your* contract(s).
 
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