Future of Paramount+ among merger talks

[TRON JA307020]

What is it that makes them token characters? Seems to me that you're saying that any person of colour that appears on a show is a token character.

Not what im saying at all. I've explained it in my previous posts. But you can look it up. You've got a whole library that you carry around all day.

 

[Dukhat]

What is it that makes them token characters? Seems to me that you're saying that any person of colour that appears on a show is a token character.

Dunno what that other person is saying, but Mayweather being underutilized had nothing to do with the color of his skin. It had to do with the writers being complete morons and not realizing that a Space Boomer should be the most important person on that ship. Not to mention the producers being more interested in showing the crew in their underwear or making T’Pol into a masseuse rather than focusing on the actual formation of the Federation.

 

[TRON JA307020]

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• Dunno what that other person is saying, but Mayweather being underutilized had nothing to do with the color of his skin. It had to do with the writers being complete morons and not realizing that a Space Boomer should be the most important person on that ship. Not to mention the producers being more interested in showing the crew in their underwear or making T’Pol into a masseuse rather than focusing on the actual formation of the Federation.

  I never said that. The color of his skin is not why he got so little screen time.

 

[HotRod]

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  I never said that. The color of his skin is not why he got so little screen time.

Why is he a token black character and not a character who happens to be black?

 

[Campe]

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  I never said that. The color of his skin is not why he got so little screen time.

Hmmm...

Whatever. Its a disservice to a minority actor in the modern world when they are there just to fill a quota and not get any good scenes or story lines.

Such as?

Star trek is no exception. The most glaring modern example was the Travis Mayweather character. We got very few episodes were he starred. Most times he had absolutely nothing to do. He should have had more to do since he was the only bridge member to grow up in space travel. They should have explored the character way more. He was largely a background character. Very surprising because TNG. STV and DS9 all did much better with their minority characters.

Sure sounds like that's exactly what you were saying.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Don't confuse the issue with facts!

 

[TRON JA307020]

Why is he a token black character and not a character who happens to be black?

Again. Do your research. If you have never heard of tokenism and how hollywood uses it there are many articles on it. I gave you some examples of other shows that have been accused of it. Use the internet. Thats what its for.

 

[Firebird]

I gave you some examples of other shows that have been accused of it.

You gave a single example outside of Enterprise. The burden of proof is still on you.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Again. Do your research. If you have never heard of tokenism and how hollywood uses it there are many articles on it. I gave you some examples of other shows that have been accused of it. Use the internet. Thats what its for.

The moment a person tells me to do my own research is the moment I no longer consider them a valid source. At that point you're just saying, "trust me bro". It's your argument, you support it.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I can't say with certainty as I wasn't there but I'm not inclined to believe when they were drafting the characters for Enterprise they decided they needed one character to black picked Travis at random and then deliberately developed him less because they felt his very presence on the bridge as a black character was enough. That somewhat farfetched scenario is the only way this tokenism argument makes sense.

 

[TRON JA307020]

You gave a single example outside of Enterprise. The burden of proof is still on you.

I gave three shows. Just back track through the posts.

The moment a person tells me to do my own research is the moment I no longer consider them a valid source. At that point you're just saying, "trust me bro". It's your argument, you support it.

I get it. Im not providing someone with a definition for "tokenism" when its a well known word and well known practice in hollywood over the years. I really don't want to be carried along in a long drawn out conversation about this subject at this point. People will have diffetent opinions. Im not out to change anyones mind.

I can't say with certainty as I wasn't there but I'm not inclined to believe when they were drafting the characters for Enterprise they decided they needed one character to black picked Travis at random and then deliberately developed him less because they felt his very presence on the bridge as a black character was enough. That somewhat farfetched scenario is the only way this tokenism argument makes sense.

Fair enough. Opinions have varied on this over the years. I can see your point.

 

[Noname Given]

Thats not a problem with star trek. Theyve had strong minority characters like Caotain Sisko. . The problem is token characters who are only window dressing or get filler side stories or dialogue no one cares about.

So Nurse Chapel, Pavel Chekov and Hikaru Sulu.. got it...oh, wait... that was back in the '60s.

 

[fireproof78]

So Nurse Chapel, Pavel Chekov and Hikaru Sulu.. got it...oh, wait... that was back in the '60s.

And by corporate mandate too.

Those evil corporations!

 

[Nerys Myk]

So Nurse Chapel, Pavel Chekov and Hikaru Sulu.. got it...oh, wait... that was back in the '60s.

Troi, Crusher, Wes, Yar....

 

[Danja]

Skydance Cites “Overwhelming Evidence” Of Fraud By Late-Arriving Paramount Bidder, Accuses It Of “Hijacking” Merger Review Process

Skydance told the FCC its pending $8 billion merger with Paramount Global is being "hijacked" and also is accusing a rogue, rival bidder of fraud.

deadline.com

 

[Quinton]

Skydance Cites “Overwhelming Evidence” Of Fraud By Late-Arriving Paramount Bidder, Accuses It Of “Hijacking” Merger Review Process

Skydance told the FCC its pending $8 billion merger with Paramount Global is being "hijacked" and also is accusing a rogue, rival bidder of fraud.

deadline.com

This ride does not end.

 

[Danja]

CBS' '60 Minutes' is unflinching in its White House coverage in the shadow of Trump's $20B lawsuit

As CBS' parent company considers settlement of President Donald Trump's lawsuit against “60 Minutes,” America’s storied newsmagazine is pulling no punches in its coverage of the new administration

abcnews.go.com

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I already gave you one. The Walking Dead.

That's one example of a show that ended a few years ago.

He's likely referring to the character T-Dog, who was a member of the main group from season one until he was killed off during "Killer Within", the fourth episode of The Walking Deads third season. T-Dog was the center of criticism thanks to his being just a random black guy who--on a series praised out of the gates for some of the best TV character development / performances in this century--was seemingly tokenized wallpaper, his lone moment of note coming early in season one where he was largely a victim to the Merle Dixon character. Ironically enough, one of the series' most celebrated characters was a black woman--Michonne--was introduced in the same season the weak T-Dog was killed off. This generated new criticism that one of The Walking Dead's MVP characters only worked that way as she was a creation from the comic books, yet when the showrunners/writers were free to create their own black character, the result was marginalized T-Dog--again, he was one of the core group characters from the beginning, yet every other surviving character had strong development and focus.

What is it that makes them token characters? Seems to me that you're saying that any person of colour that appears on a show is a token character.

There's more, but for now, look no further than the Star Wars sequel trilogy, where Disney/LFL--in bringing the franchise back to the big screen, Kennedy, J.J., et al., had every opportunity to create a new, strong black character for a new generation, yet Disney/LFL had an agenda: use the one Black male lead (Finn as portrayed by John Boyega) and define him as a tokenized embarrassment by making him a long-lived Hollywood stereotype of Black men: a comedic sanitation worker (of all things he could have been, which rendered the idea of his being a trooper into a meaningless visual), then, he had to be named by Poe (historically dehumanizing to Black people, particularly to descendants in the slave/colonial nations), and he largely screamed and panted throughout TFA. Message from Kennedy, J.J., et al. well received. That was no accident or misunderstanding. Add John Boyega's GQ interview where he laid out the mistreatment to himself as an actor and the racially offensive marketing (marginalizing) of his character, and yet again, deep into the 21st century, you have racialized token characters from the media corporations who cannot stop selling their "progressive" status.

 

[TRON JA307020]

He's likely referring to the character T-Dog, who was a member of the main group from season one until he was killed off during Killer Within", the fourth episode of The Walking Deads third season. T-Dog was the center of criticism thanks to his being just a random black guy who--on a series praised out of the gates for some of the best TV character development / performances in this century--was seemingly tokenized wallpaper, his lone moment of note coming early in season one where he was largely a victim to the Merle Dixon character. Ironically enough, one of the series' most celebrated characters was a black woman--Michonne--was introduced in the same season the weak T-Dog was killed off. This generated new criticism that one of The Walking Dead's MVP characters only worked that way as she was a creation from the comic books, yet when the showrunners/writers were free to create their own black character, the result was marginalized T-Dog--again, he was one of the core group characters from the beginning, yet every other surviving character had strong development and focus.

There's more, but for now, look no further than the Star Wars sequel trilogy, where Disney/LFL--in bringing the franchise back to the big screen, Kennedy, J..J., et al., had every opportunity to create a new, strong black character for a new generation, yet Disney/LFL had an agenda: use the one Black male lead (Finn as portrayed by John Boyega) and define him as a tokenized embarrassment by making him a long-lived Hollywood stereotype of Black men: a comedic sanitation worker (of all things he could have been, which rendered the idea of his being a trooper into a meaningless visual), then, he had to be named by Poe (historically dehumanizing to Black people, particularly to descendants in the slave/colonial nations), and he largely screamed and panted throughout TFA. Message from Kennedy, J.J., et al. well received. That was no accident or misunderstanding. Add John Boyega's GQ interview where he laid out the mistreatment to himself as an actor and the racially offensive marketing (marginalizing) of his character, and yet again, deep into the 21st century, you have racialized token characters from the media corporations who cannot stop selling their "progressive" status.

Well said TREK_GOD. I've read a lot about hollywood in books and wikipedia so I've known about this practice for a long time. The Force Awakens is a great examplr. I don't blame John Boyega for not being happy. Hes a great actor and deserved a better written character.
Its too bad Hollywood feels the need to do this in modern times.

 

[Cicero]

Star trek is no exception. The most glaring modern example was the Travis Mayweather character. We got very few episodes were he starred. Most times he had absolutely nothing to do. He should have had more to do since he was the only bridge member to grow up in space travel. They should have explored the character way more. He was largely a background character. Very surprising because TNG. STV and DS9 all did much better with their minority characters.

I suspect that Mayweather was mostly an accident. When the crew was developed (or borrowed from Galaxy Quest and reworked), I don't think the creators realized that his interesting traits were shared with Archer (piloting) and T'Pol (experience). And Trip, as a senior officer, was a more natural fit in the potential role of foil to T'Pol.

Also, if you watch the cast reunion from a decade ago, Anthony Montgomery's personality (which is naturally charismatic) is father from his character's than the other actors' are.

He was obviously the right actor, but the writing was wrong. (I don't think he was a token, though, just poorly served.)