While some may find it corny I liked when Kirk hugged Rand. It showed that Kirk was only human and that he really didn't expect to survive.
Funny Scene From TOS! Kirk Embarrassed ByHis Yeoman
- Thread starter TRON JA307020
- Start date
While some may find it corny I liked when Kirk hugged Rand. It showed that Kirk was only human and that he really didn't expect to survive.
Actually, from what I've read (and yes I've read a few) and heard, a substantial number of K&S fic deals with the idea of K&S as NOT POSSIBLE... i.e., an impossibility given the fact that they serve together. Once this inhibition is overcome, the fic takes...err... off
Actually, from what I've read (and yes I've read a few) and heard, a substantial number of K&S fic deals with the idea of K&S as NOT POSSIBLE... i.e., an impossibility given the fact that they serve together. Once this inhibition is overcome, the fic takes...err... off
Nah it would never happen.
I think that's what they were trying to imply, definitely. The crazy part is that the scene was used as a "test case" in the Writer's Guide, where you were asked to decide from among four things, what was the major problem with the scene. Three of the things were easily corrected; the answer was "unbelievable, the Captain wouldn't hug a pretty yeoman on the bridge." You're then asked to imagine the same scene with a modern U.S. Navy vessel. "Some might prefer that Henderson were somewhere making love instead of shelling Asian ports, but that's a whole different story for a whole different network. Probably BBC."
After that, what I'm wondering is how did that scene make it onto the show?
The scene is for comic effect. It's not making a wider point although it is fun that some interpret it that way.
There is plenty of evidence to show that there is no absolute ban on officers or captains fraternising with their crew. We've seen Riker and Troi, Picard and Darren, Picard and Crusher (alternate future). We've also seen both senior and junior officers having relationships and even marrying. But it seems that it is frowned upon for the Captain to do so, or at least it's not considered a good idea. That's why Kirk says, "You're allowed to notice her." We also see the problems it causes Picard.
However, beyond a few flirtations, Kirk Prime never had any relationships with men or women under his direct command did he? I think they were all off on starbases or on Earth.
I do agree that despite their attraction, Kirk and Rand were professional unless they were off their tits somehow. When drunk Kirk shows up at Rand's quarters, she clearly isn't thinking wow, this is a fantasy coming true (I mean the fantasy of Kirk being interested in her sexually, not the attempted rape that followed her rejection, obviously). I never thought anything of the scene where he hugs her except that he does it subconsciously and she doesn't even react. Neither of them is thinking about the hug - they're both focused on the fact that they're about to die.
As far as slash goes, there is also a scene in the Apple, apparently, where Spock helps Kirk up and Chekov and Landon throw each other a smirk, as if to say, we all know what that's about. It's their captain and first officer relationship that would be the problem though, not their gender.
Yeah. I think the big problem is not so much that Kirk is serving with them, but that they're serving under his direct command. That raises all sorts of conflicts of interest, as Picard found out in the TNG episode "Lessons." (Not to mention that it generally isn't a good idea to have a relationship with your boss.) Since McCoy has no qualms about heavily flirting with Yeoman Barrows in "Shore Leave," I can only assume that the Captain is held to a higher standard. Whether or not that's regulations or just Kirk's personal feelings, I can't say.
People like to paint Kirk as a major horndog who hit on anything that moved, but that's not really shown in most episodes of TOS. Much of the time he's very concerned about impropriety and/or he's romancing a woman in the context of a mission. I think it's very significant that most of Kirk's romantic interests are either old girlfriends ("Shore Leave," "Court Martial," "The Deadly Years," "Turnabout Intruder") or under extraordinary circumstances where he's not quite in his right mind ("City on the Edge of Forever," "The Paradise Syndrome"). Kirk was probably expecting to remain celibate for most of the five-year mission (Shore leave excursions excepted, of course
).Yeah, I think his record is pretty clear. Kirk hugs Rand on the bridge in a moment of weakness, but other than that, he's afraid to act on his attraction for her. He kisses Areel Shaw on the bridge in "Court Martial," but she was an old girlfriend and he'd just beaten a murder rap. And while it looks like Kirk's about to hit on the Prime Universe Marlena at the end of "Mirror, Mirror," we really have no idea what he said to her once the credits started rolling.
It seems like there was something that went on between Kirk & Helen Noel at the Christmas party mentioned in "Dagger of the Mind," but I think that even that could be explained. The theory I read was that Dr. Noel was in civilian clothing at the party, and Kirk mistook her for a passenger when he was flirtatious with her. They didn't do anything more serious than dancing and talking about the stars, but as soon as Kirk realized that Noel was actually a new crewman serving under his command, he got very embarrassed and strove to remain appropriate. That explains his discomfort around her at the beginning of the episode.
The problem is, I can no longer remember if this was something explained in an early draft or if it was just a fan theory that I really liked. Anyone know for sure?
Whichever it is, it's part of my TOS headcanon now.
It's true! Jimmy boy never had relationships with any of his female crew while he was the Captain! Janice Rand was his yeoman and as stated earlier out of his reach as such, his responsibility was to The Enterprise! Eve was attracted to Kirk on Mudd's orders but he resisted her charms, Helen Noel was an old girlfriend, he did sort of try to pursue Lenore Karidian but that could have been his need to solve his friend's death and the quest to find Kodos, Areel Shaw was an old girlfriend, Edith Keeler he fell for but knew he had to let her die in order to save the world's future, Marlena Moreau was the Captain's woman in the mirror universe and although he was attracted to her he kept his place, Sylvia was an alien temptress who wanted him to submit to her but he resisted, Janet Wallace was an old girlfriend, Shahna he was attracted to and helped her to fight the evil forces that controlled the planet she lived on, he romped about with Nona on the planet Neural after she had bewitched him with her potions, Anne Mulhall was simply like Kirk a body for the disembodied forces to occupy, he used Kelinda's curiosity of him to defeat her people's plans to colonize the galaxy, he did sleep with Drusilla while under the stress of saving the lives of his two friends and the crew in orbit while on planet 892 IV, he did live and love Miramanee but that was after his memories had been damaged by the Preservers computers, he did sleep with Deela while her people were trying to enslave his ship but that could have been due to alien influence rather than his libido, he did sleep with The Dohlman of Elas but we could argue that was due to the magical properties of her tears on his skin, he was attracted to Odona while on a copy of The Enterprise but he fought to save himself and the people of Gideon instead, he did fall for Rayna and nearly made a fool of himself but she wasn't a real human only an android, he was attracted to Vanna and helped her fight the injustices of her world and Dr.Janice Lester was an old girlfriend! So on the whole he had a great record with the ladies as opposed to his image of a lothario I'd say! 
JB
JB
No, just implied by McCoy commenting on how Kirk's old friends usually turn out to be attractive women.
TNG is hardly evidence of what the rules are in TOS. There are a lot of things in TNG that show many of its writers didn't understand the service.
Anyway, rule or not, a captain has to be perfect in the eyes of his crew. The idea that he has a "captain's woman" would be ruinous to his authority on the ship (and to her career).
Noel says very clearly what happened between them (and what didn't).
And ... passenger??? On a starship?
She's not under his direct command, is she? They're from different departments and while he's much higher in rank as I understand it he doesn't give her direct orders. Kirk on the other hand doesn't have this out...
Or maybe he's allowed to fraternalize only with high-ranking officers
After all, in "Balance of Terror" Tomlinson was Martine's superior but the difference in rank was not big and they had no problem getting married.I always though this is the reason Kirk never tried relationships with those under his command. Even if Starfleet allows it, he wouldn't if only because it's bad for morale and he's the Captain first and foremost.
She's not under his direct command, is she? They're from different departments and while he's much higher in rank as I understand it he doesn't give her direct orders. Kirk on the other hand doesn't have this out...
Or maybe he's allowed to fraternalize only with high-ranking officers
I always though this is the reason Kirk never tried relationships with those under his command. Even if Starfleet allows it, he wouldn't if only because it's bad for morale and he's the Captain first and foremost.
Also he loves the Enterprise more than any female humanoid.
Lenore and Elaan were passengers..
Some people read this into anything. Loonies have been shipping Picard and Riker since pretty early on.
I do think the writers messed this up in suggesting Kirk would think for a second Spock would give him a back rub. Spock? SPOCK?! Seriously?
By special arrangement and with the captain's knowledge. He's not likely to run into a stranger on the lido deck and think all is hunky dory.
True. Unknown passengers are unlikely.
Yeah it was a pretty weird scene. Why on earth or Vulcan would Kirk even think Mr. Spock would give his captain a back rub anytime or anywhere especially on the bridge. Maybe NuSpcok would have no problem giving NuKirk a backrub because he is so emotional and gets jealous when NuKirk gives attention to people like NuCarol Marcus but I do not see the the real Spock wanting to give Kirk a back rub. I can only guess the scene was put in as a joke but its still pretty strange.
The Enterprise takes on passengers in "Mudd's Women," "Charlie X," "The Conscience of the King," "A Taste of Armageddon," "Space Seed," "This Side of Paradise," "Operation: Annihilate!" "The Deadly Years," "Journey to Babel," "Elaan of Troyius," "And The Children Shall Lead" "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" and "The Way To Eden." It's not unheard of.
And we see in "Space Seed," "I, Mudd," "Mirror, Mirror" and "Obsession" that Kirk doesn't instantly know every single one of his crewmen by name or sight. 430 crewmen are a LOT to remember, especially when folks are transferring on and off the ship. If Helen Noel had just gotten to the ship, the Enterprise happened to be ferrying some colonists, diplomats, or a group of scientists, and she went to the Christmas party in a formal, off-duty outfit, it's not implausible that Kirk would mistake Noel for a passenger.
Mind you, I'm not saying that Kirk did anything inappropriate with Noel, like in her fantasy where he carries her back to her cabin. Just that he went further than he personally felt was appropriate. Kirk, especially first season Kirk, held himself to a very high standard and would be quite embarrassed if he felt he'd crossed a line. I think that makes more sense than Kirk hitting on someone under his command.
Right. Which was pretty much my entire point.
True, wasn't there something about Vulcans eschewing physical contact with other beings so that touching one was considered a major violation of their privacy?
Please don't ask the source, I don't remember and it's probably noncanon anyway.
Similar threads
