Full access to the internet during exams.

[Miss Chicken]

I think in some exams access to the internet is fine, just like I think that open book exams are fine for some subjects.

If the internet is used during an exam the exam taker should give the sources on the exam paper and should put answers into his own words and not just cut and paste. They should negatively marked if they copy and paste.

 

[trekkiedane]

I am totally against this. A test is a test, not 'look up the answer because the teacher doesn't know'. Thinking requires processing of information AND the storage of information. The human brain can do both of these things, quite well.

Sure, there's a lot of information out there, too much for the brain to hold, but who needs to know all of it? Students study their particular field, not every field.

Studying, research, I have no problem with it, but testing, no. Especially in today's competitive world. No one wants to hire someone who can just google it, because ANYONE can just google it.

But the information you need to store is the how-to not the what, where, when!
Especially so in a world where the what, where, when is subject to change without notice at any time.

Learning the text book by heart is going to get you into a lot of trouble when more recent studies proves some of the facts in it wrong.

Again: A net-exam is for gauging the student's ability to find, criticize and use information.

 

[Capn Flukie]

I agree that facts change (never thought I'd say that), but keeping abreast of current and changing information is for when you have a career, any responsible professional will need to do that, but you should know the facts as they stand, at the time of testing.

 

[trekkiedane]

I agree that facts change (never thought I'd say that), but keeping abreast of current and changing information is for when you have a career, any responsible professional will need to do that, but you should know the facts as they stand, at the time of testing.

Indeed, not the facts as they stood at the time someone wrote a book about them that your school purchased and your teachers sanctioned and used while teaching you

 

[Capn Flukie]

That's pretty much the same thing.

 

[trekkiedane]

That's pretty much the same thing.

Right, but my point is that you should be able to show your understanding of this already during the exam -not later when you 'have a career' -I mean, how is your potential employer going to be able to discern whether you are merely good at remembering facts or if you are good at adapting to changing facts?

 

[Capn Flukie]

A responsible student is both.

I'm removing myself from this thread because I am biased, I administer exams, tutor, and work in the college bookstore.

 

[trekkiedane]

A responsible student is both.

I'm removing myself from this thread because I am biased, I administer exams, tutor, and work in the college bookstore.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

People should be required to actually so some work and KNOW something in this life besides the URL to Google.

 

[trekkiedane]

People should be required to actually so some work and KNOW something in this life besides the URL to Google.

Couldn't agree more! -People should know how to use Google and the information they find there!

 

[bigdaddy]

When I took math 7 years ago no calcs or anything. Stupid teacher.

 

[nevermore]

People should be required to actually so some work and KNOW something in this life besides the URL to Google.

Couldn't agree more! -People should know how to use Google and the information they find there!

People should also know actual information, which is the basis for applying critical thought. Also, kids have to be taught to retain information and not treat it as disposable. There are many contexts in life where being able to recall actual basic facts on the fly is required for critical thought and google is not an option. If I get into a debate with someone on the relative merits of Glenn Beck's claims that health care reform is a "socialist, communist, fascist plot", I'm not going to wait for them to look up communism to decide their position on the issue.

Thus, while there are certainly a lot of exams that can and should be done open-book or open-internet, especially on the university level, there remains value in a system that also teaches basic knowledge of the underlying facts. To simply teach that they can just look those facts up anytime they need them is to instill laziness and disrespect for knowledge and intellectual rigor.

 

[USS Triumphant]

because ANYONE can just google it.

I agree with everything you said except this. Anyone CAN google, but not everyone is equally skilled in getting what they are looking for out of a search. My superior google-fu, for example, is frequently capable of pulling out information that my friends and family can't - some of whom are even computer professionals themselves.

 

[Jadzia]

You know, back when I was at high school I predicted something like this would happen in the future.

My argument was: that in the real world, we have access to calculators and textbooks and computers and phones more often than not... and the accessibility of these things is constantly increasing. It is increasingly normal for us to make use of these things on a daily basis, and a person's true ability in any field is supplemented by access to these things.

So an exam which forbids that access is testing our performance in an artificially muted environment. At the end of the day, does it really matter where we get an answer from, as long as it is the correct answer? Do people have to work things out for themselves?

But at the same time, that prospect unsettled me... as in the next generation where would the examiners get their questions and answers from?

 

[USS Triumphant]

So an exam which forbids that access is testing our performance in an artificially muted environment. At the end of the day, does it really matter where we get an answer from, as long as it is the correct answer? Do people have to work things out for themselves?

It is a critical part of science that ideas that are taken for granted are examined and reexamined, worked-out and re-worked-out. So yes, it does matter, and people have to know how to work things out for themselves.

Plus, a large portion of the communication/information rich environment that they seem to be suggesting can be taken for granted can be taken out for the entire US by the EMP from a 1 kiloton nuclear warhead detonated just above the atmosphere over Kansas. And then what are these people going to do? (I know you're in England, but you get the point - just change Kansas to southern Germany, and now we're talking about most of Europe.)

 

[sidious618]

Full access could be very interesting depending on the test. If you a tailor a test in a certain way it could actually be quite the constructive assignment.

 

[Jadzia]

It is a critical part of science that ideas that are taken for granted are examined and reexamined, worked-out and re-worked-out. So yes, it does matter, and people have to know how to work things out for themselves.

Somewhat agree. But I feel that for the most part we trust established truths without making a personal in depth examination of them. As a skill, being able to work stuff out for oneself is a relatively minor part of life. Especially as I anticipate the future will provide us with an increasing amount of technology that works things out for us.

Plus, a large portion of the communication/information rich environment that they seem to be suggesting can be taken for granted can be taken out for the entire US by the EMP from a 1 kiloton nuclear warhead...

Humanity has a tendency to move their dependencies on to newer things, that invariably offer cheaper economy than old fashioned things, but are guaranteed to be more fragile.

 

[TheGodBen]

As for the comment about the calculators in math tests: We were allowed them, but I never used one. Kinda of defeats the purpose, and I ended up getting Bs & As in AP Algebra and Intro to AP Geometry, while the guys using the Calcs were averaging C and Ds or worse.

Using calculators does not defeat the purpose. Once you reach secondary education the ability to do basic arithmetic is taken as a given and you are hardly even marked on it, if you make an error in calculation you might be deducted a single mark, but you will still get the other nine so long as your methodology is correct. Sure, you can do all the calculations in your head if you want, but that doesn't matter when what you are being judged on is Fourier transforms.

Mathematics isn't just a science, it is the science. Knowing what you are doing and why is far more important than being able to prove you can divide 3573 by 56 without the use of a calculator.


For tests as they are now using the internet would not work, the tests have to be created knowing that the internet is being used and weighted according to that fact. Since that seems to be what is happening in this case I support the attempt and will be interested to see how things turn out.

 

[Kommander]

I don't like how kids these days are allowed to use power tools in shop class.

 

[sidious618]

I don't like how kids these days are allowed to use power tools in shop class.

Not only that but they listen to loud music and play violent video games.