Full access to the internet during exams.

[trekkiedane]

14 Danish High Schools are the first in the world to allow pupils access to the internet during exams. This is a bold move, which has attracted international media attention.

Danish Ministry of Education

I'm one of those old folks that don't understand why this sort of thing (access to the net during exams) isn't already standard practise during all exams in our parts of the world. This news kinda caught me by surprise!

Sure, people older than I might argue that it is better to teach kids to know everything by heart and make exams that test how well they listened to the standard texts taught in school -it worked for them in their day, right!-?

Apparently it's a 'giant leap for mankind' though.

Your thoughts are welcomed!

 

[the Dagman]

Exams are supposed to be a gauge for how well you know the subject matter, not for how well you can Google.

 

[Shazam!]

I can imagine there was similar uproar regarding the use of calculators in maths exams, but full access to the internet is mental. You may as well just give them the answer sheet.

 

[trekkiedane]

[Edit:] Exactly! - 'Math' changed from showing whether you are able to add and whatnot into showing that you are able to understand a mathematical problem and solving it! [/Edit]

Exams are supposed to test whether you know how to process information!

What you know or don't know about the subject is irrelevant in an age with Google!

 

[farmkid]

[Edit:]What you know or don't know about the subject is irrelevant in an age with Google!

Just go read some of the threads in TNZ or listen to much of the political debate or watch the news and you'll see that isn't true. Access to Google (or even Wikipedia) is no substitute for actual knowledge.

 

[trekkiedane]

[Edit:]What you know or don't know about the subject is irrelevant in an age with Google!

Just go read some of the threads in TNZ or listen to much of the political debate or watch the news and you'll see that isn't true. Access to Google (or even Wikipedia) is no substitute for actual knowledge.

While, admittedly, the NZ is a brilliant example of just how wrong you can be even if you know how to google, a 'high school' level exam grade would show just how well you processed the information you found on-line, unlike what happens in TNZ

“In Denmark we have a tradition of designing exam assignments that test pupils’ ability to understand and interpret rather than rote learning. We prefer pupils use the knowledge they have instead of simply repeating it. In this light, allowing access to the internet is a natural step to take”, says Steen Lassen.

From the article linked to in the OP

Your school is supposed to teach you how to process information, not just how to store it.

 

[KiraDax]

I hate to see these kids in the real world (aka workplace) when the internet goes down.

It will be sad.

 

[Shazam!]

What's TNZ?

 

[trekkiedane]

What's TNZ?

A cesspool of hatred on the bottom of the T-BBS front page (if you have opted to access it).

 

[Shazam!]

LOL How do you opt to see it? I can't spot anything under Options...

 

[trekkiedane]

I forget, but I think it's somewhere in your User Control Panel. -these days.

ETA: yeah, under "Group Memberships"

 

[Mallory]

I hate to see these kids in the real world (aka workplace) when the internet goes down.

It will be sad.

Or there isn't any access. You're right, it will be sad. And think of all the jobs where you actually need to know the material. I don't want to have my house built by a bunch of people who have to Google "how to read a blueprint", for example. Do I really want the arborist I hired to cut down the 100 foot tree in my back yard Googling how to do it with my house there? I don't think so.

 

[trekkiedane]

I don't want to have my house built by a bunch of people who have to Google "how to read a blueprint", for example.

Good example! - you have gone to school to learn to read the bloody thing and all of a sudden you are put in a situation where something that didn't even exist in those days appears on the blueprint... what to do?

 

[Lindley]

I don't see how this is much different than a take-home exam. Some of those can be pretty tough.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

[Edit:]What you know or don't know about the subject is irrelevant in an age with Google!

Just go read some of the threads in TNZ or listen to much of the political debate or watch the news and you'll see that isn't true. Access to Google (or even Wikipedia) is no substitute for actual knowledge.

How is knowledge gleaned in a textbook versus multiple and fairly reliable sources on the internet (note: not just one source alone and not some random website) any less "actual."

At first when I read the title and the OP I had the same knee-jerk reaction a lot of people here did and said "that sounds crazy." But then I actually read the article and saw that instead of simply asking for easy answers (ie: What year did William the Conqueror invade England? = 1066) they're tailoring the test to take advantage of access to online sources by requiring in-depth answers in the student's own words.

In essence, it's sort of like requiring a very brief research paper be written for each answer, without the requirement of showing all your sources. And using the internet is allowed for that. If the student has to read and rewrite the information in their own words they're as likely to remember that as they are memorizing a bunch of single word or sentence answers that leave out added context.

It sounds like a lot more work for the teacher however.

I don't want to have my house built by a bunch of people who have to Google "how to read a blueprint", for example. Do I really want the arborist I hired to cut down the 100 foot tree in my back yard Googling how to do it with my house there? I don't think so.

That's clearly not what they're talking about though. Practical knowledge will still require hands-on experience.

 

[trekkiedane]

I don't see how this is much different than a take-home exam. Some of those can be pretty tough.

Almost the same thing, as I understand it, except in this example you have no possibility to communicate with other people taking the same exam -and only a very few hours to do it.

Although, I wonder how it could be controlled that you don't just go to some forum and ask the 'experts' there... whom -in theory- could be the very same people you aren't supposed to e-mail.

 

[SeerSGB]

I hate to see these kids in the real world (aka workplace) when the internet goes down.

It will be sad.

Or there isn't any access. You're right, it will be sad. And think of all the jobs where you actually need to know the material. I don't want to have my house built by a bunch of people who have to Google "how to read a blueprint", for example. Do I really want the arborist I hired to cut down the 100 foot tree in my back yard Googling how to do it with my house there? I don't think so.

Hell, it's bad enough that people don't know how to run a invoice book and an adding machine if the "satellite goes down" and the cash register goes off line.

When I was working at the bookstore a new GM that I was training (he had to work with the "piss-ants" for six weeks to learn all the jobs) fresh out of business school actually quit when we lost the registers and had to do manual credit-card impressions and write out invoices and using a addin-machine calculator to do business for the day. He literally turned in his registration at the end of the shift and said the job was "to stressful"

Imagine a Paramedic or a EMT Googleing how to use a defibrillator on you and they lose the wifi connection.

As for the comment about the calculators in math tests: We were allowed them, but I never used one. Kinda of defeats the purpose, and I ended up getting Bs & As in AP Algebra and Intro to AP Geometry, while the guys using the Calcs were averaging C and Ds or worse.

Although, I wonder how it could be controlled that you don't just go to some forum and ask the 'experts' there... whom -in theory- could be the very same people you aren't supposed to e-mail.

Let 'em come to TrekBBS We'd fuck up some poor kid's test so bad it'd end up on the six o'clock news.

 

[Lindley]

Although, I wonder how it could be controlled that you don't just go to some forum and ask the 'experts' there... whom -in theory- could be the very same people you aren't supposed to e-mail.

It's self-policing for the most part. "Experts" are very good at spotting homework questions, and while they might offer some guidance, they typically are not eager to deliver gift-wrapped answers to someone they may have to work with some day.

 

[trekkiedane]

[Edit]^Good point, there are good people out there! -and any student relying on anything from one single source is bound to be disappointed anyway [/Edit]

As for the comment about the calculators in math tests: We were allowed them, but I never used one. Kinda of defeats the purpose, and I ended up getting Bs & As in AP Algebra and Intro to AP Geometry, while the guys using the Calcs were averaging C and Ds or worse.

Also a brilliant example! If you don't know the underlying math. you aren't necessarily able to solve the problem in the first place.
Allowing net access is just another way to see whether a student has understood the underlying knowledge or whether this student is just a good copy-paster.

 

[Capn Flukie]

I am totally against this. A test is a test, not 'look up the answer because the teacher doesn't know'. Thinking requires processing of information AND the storage of information. The human brain can do both of these things, quite well.

Sure, there's a lot of information out there, too much for the brain to hold, but who needs to know all of it? Students study their particular field, not every field.

Studying, research, I have no problem with it, but testing, no. Especially in today's competitive world. No one wants to hire someone who can just google it, because ANYONE can just google it.