Fringe 4x09 - "Enemy of My Enemy"

[The Nth Doctor]

Oh, that is interesting. I was particularly happy that this was the first time I spotted an Observer in several seasons but now I know why: September is obviously more sneaky than this guy.

Still, it's an interesting revelation that I can't wait for them to explore (why September was shot and why we're seeing a different Observer popping up in each episode).

 

[Procutus]

^


Agreed, how and why September was shot is a major question now, including WHO shot him. I'm also curious to see what, if anything, will come of the blood sample that Olivia gave to Astrid. Should prove interesting.

 

[Snick27]

Should we conclude that the story with universe A & B (season1-3) is done?

I mean right before Peter fizzeled out both universes were connected or atleast in that room together.

So figures from that point , they realize Peter has vanished and realize they need to work together.

OR

They are in the same universe and the time line was changed and once Peter gets back into the machine he will be put back into that time line and everything he learns from this Universe C & D he will remember and at end of the season go after the real bad guy.


Tried to explain to my mom this show with pretty much 4 universes. Didnt go well lol.

 

[Procutus]

Tried to explain to my mom this show with pretty much 4 universes. Didnt go well lol.

Hell, I've seen every ep, and I'm having a difficult enough time trying to keep track of it!

 

[Snick27]

The storys are good but really i want the orginal red an blue universes back. Just seems the show ended last season and this is just tacked on. If this dont start getting back to his orginal or somehow effecting that universe then this is a wasted season.

 

[Santeria]

Definitely sure another universe is at play here

There's not even three universes. They've just had significant changes made to them due to time travel in one of them. But because the main focus of that time travel erased someone who had major influence in both universes, both have had changes made to them as a result.

At no point has there been any indication of new universes being created. Peter thinks he's been flung into another set of universes, but that's why he needs Walter's help to figure out what actually happened. We saw the changes happen on screen as soon as he was wiped away. There was no flashing to another universe at any point whatsoever. Nor are there any differences between the two universes outside of the impact Peter's lack of a presence has had on them.

Different universes and time travel are two completely separate things.

The only thing hinting at another universe is the presence of the Observers, but that's been true since they first showed up on the scene.

 

[AvBaur]

Different universes and time travel are two completely separate things.

Not necessarily. The theory that Kurtzman/Orci (who co-created Fringe) employed in their Star Trek script is that every time you change history with time travel, you create a new alternate universe while the original timeline continues to exist. I'd be surprised if they used a completely different version of time travel on Fringe.

Therefore, removing Peter from the timeline wouldn't have changed the existing universes but simply created two new ones.

 

[Santeria]

Therefore, removing Peter from the timeline wouldn't have changed the existing universes but simply created two new ones.

But it did. We saw it change. On screen. In real time. Go re-watch the episode. There was no universe jumping. There was no shaking of the screen. Everything simply changed, instantly, with no fuss, the moment Peter was erased.

Regardless, assuming your theory is the correct one, what the hell happened to the other two universes in which Peter was erased from time then? Oh, right, exactly the same thing that's happening on screen. Since the only difference is the absence of Peter being saved by the Observer in the past. So now you know what's up with all four universes; they're exactly the same.

 

[Forbin]

My head hurts.

 

[Procutus]

Different universes and time travel are two completely separate things.

Not necessarily. The theory that Kurtzman/Orci (who co-created Fringe) employed in their Star Trek script is that every time you change history with time travel, you create a new alternate universe while the original timeline continues to exist. I'd be surprised if they used a completely different version of time travel on Fringe.

Therefore, removing Peter from the timeline wouldn't have changed the existing universes but simply created two new ones.

You beat me to the punch on that one, because I was thinking the same thing. Personally, I still think we're looking at another part of the overall multiverse, but I could be wrong.

 

[Santeria]

You beat me to the punch on that one, because I was thinking the same thing. Personally, I still think we're looking at another part of the overall multiverse, but I could be wrong.

Again, what's with the other two universes then?

How are they any different than the two we're seeing on the show this season? Peter was ripped from the timeline in both his original universe and the one Walter kidnapped him to, with the key moment being that the Observer didn't save him when he fell through the ice.

So how are these two "new" universes separate from those two? The only difference is that -- you got it -- Peter wasn't saved when he fell into the ice. Every change beyond that point in time is a result of a lack of Peter's existence. The Statue of Liberty isn't made out of silver or gold. Personal hot air balloons aren't the transportation of choice. Walter isn't the President of the United States. Nope. They're identical to the "old" universes, sans Peter.

And the reason for that? It's because they aren't new universes. They're the exact same ones as before, only altered due to the effects of tampering with events in the past.

Which, incidentally, is why we haven't once seen a flash to those "old" universes. It's just like it was in Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

[Beagleman]

^^^
I think you are completely right!

 

[stj]

As far as the cliffhanger, the Observers said that there never was a Peter, not that Peter never grew up.

In the original story line, the whole Pattern and ZFT and cortexiphan experiments were all intimately related to the attempts by the other universe to invade this universe. The thing is, that Walternate's motivations were always intimately tied to getting Peter, if only to operate the machine. And Walter's request to Bell was to keep the pathway for this invasion secret, lest Walternate succeed. Without an adult Peter the motivation for all this is left hanging in the air.

Why is this Walter crazy if Bell never did the memory excision on his brain? Who operated the machine? Why does the question of where the machine came from have nothing to do with this storyline, even though it has apparently been the fruition, even the point, of hundreds of thousands of years of First People evolution and history? That's an awful lot of plot to leave offstage. All these problems raise difficulties that beg for resolution, hence the speculation about multiple universes.

Is the upshot really that we're watching a bloated version of It's a Wonderful Life where Peter has to be restored so that Walter can be more mentally healthy and Olivia has cortexiphan power? Very possible, serialized plots get so convoluted they strangle themselves.