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Freeman Dyson on global warming

I've respected and followed the work of Freeman Dyson for over two decades. Lest one forget, he is an environmentalist. He's also a very, very thoughtful and intelligent man. As humble as he is, his thoughts should be taken seriously and not simply dismissed. I've been ashamed to see that some of his fellow environmentalists have resorted to calling him names and claiming that he's an old ignorant man who doesn't know what he's saying. He may be old, but he's far from ignorant. He's outside of politics and he doesn't need government funding. He's not not ignorant, he's independent.
 
Mr. Fowler, Dyson isn't the first to be thrown to the wolves by environmentalists over this issue. Patrick Moore, a co-founder of Greenpeace is reviled by some because he questions the dogma. Several state climatologists in the U.S. have had their careers threatened by governors who feel that AGW is a political issue requiring a unified front.

The global climate change issues have two factors: the scientific and the political. I fear that the political aspects have overwhelmed and poisoned the scientific; there is no toleration of dissent or skepticism and expression of doubt is met with swift, organized opposition. In spite of that, I'm hopeful that people are beginning to see the trouble with the politics of global warming; my only fear is that the efforts of "Big Green" to use AGW with exaggerated alarmist claims will ultimately result in a backlash that not only undermines legitimate research on climate change, but environmentalism in general.
 
Environmentalists will hate me for this but, I gave up worrying about the environment years ago.

After seeing Nature lay waste to my city with a Hurricane, it became abundantly clear that she isn't worried about us. With that one storm, she turned one of America's pre-eminent cities into a Hobbesian Nightmare. Just imagine what she can do with a solar flare or two. :eek:

Nature is more than capable of taking care of herself. The only thing Human activity is ever going to threaten is Humanity's own existence.
 
Mr. Fowler, Dyson isn't the first to be thrown to the wolves by environmentalists over this issue. Patrick Moore, a co-founder of Greenpeace is reviled by some because he questions the dogma.

In the words of that paragon of humility Nancy Pelosi, they're "trying to save the planet." :lol:
 
the very future of science itself is threatened by these climate change monkeys.

No, Science isn't threatened by them. They're the symptom of a much worse societal cancer, a lack of good science education. People need to pay more attention is school and read a few books now and then. That will make it much more difficult for these climate change people (and other wankers) to pull this kind of shit.

There's just no way my lack of recycling (since it's not available in this area anymore) and driving around in my Chevy is going to kill the world.
 
We seem very big to us.

I remember reading a very well written article about how when the oil ran out we would revert to the stone age because we would have no lubricant for complex machines without oil. Even bikes need oil to make their wheels spin.

It was long and listed every terrible thing that would happen and was very convincing.

And it ignored that we could just use oil from plants.
 
the very future of science itself is threatened by these climate change monkeys.

No, Science isn't threatened by them. They're the symptom of a much worse societal cancer, a lack of good science education. People need to pay more attention is school and read a few books now and then. That will make it much more difficult for these climate change people (and other wankers) to pull this kind of shit.

There's just no way my lack of recycling (since it's not available in this area anymore) and driving around in my Chevy is going to kill the world.
Actually, I think people need to be more educated about what is actual science and what politicians/"the media" think are the necessary consequences.**

Funding research into climate change isn't going to bankrupt any society. However, some people seem to think that giving any validity to the scientific theory of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) must also include a "socialist" agenda of increased taxes and the like.

Believing that the theory of ACC is valid or not is vastly different from agreeing with any particular proposed social remedy.

Personally, I believe that the theory of ACC is by and large correct and we'd be much better off researching ways to cope with its effect than to discuss what might be done to prevent it. However, the latter point is one I espouse because I think that politically, it is basically inevitable that most of the stored carbon (whether in oil, coal, or natural gas form) will be utilized. But I do realize that it's my political opinion that nothing much will be done to either cap the carbon emissions altogether or at least stretch them out over a long enough time such that natural carbon sinks aren't overwhelmed to a significant degree.

IMO, we should by now largely* move on from a discussion of whether ACC is occuring to one where various means of coping with it are discussed from a financial and moral point of view (I include morals because while it may make financial sense to let everyone in Bangladesh drown, I don't think that's what is morally right).

Ie, does it make more sense to continue to utilize coal to a significant degree and spend the money on dikes and other measures instead to contain the downsides, or are we better off preventing change?



That is why my mind automatically tunes out whenever I hear references to Al Gore for example. He's neither a scientist researching what causes ACC, nor what might be done to convert human civilization into one that is tolerant of climate changes of such magnitude. He IS a politician, first and foremost.


* I say largely because there's of course, as always, the possibility to be wrong and I don't want to restrict science to majority opinion.


** One egregious example is the supposed threat of a new ice age in the 70s. Sure, some scientists worried about that back then, more worried about warming even then. However, that was almost 40 years ago, climate science has improved massively since then.
Quite often I think that the popular (as opposed to scientific) critics of ACC are criticizing the theories/hypotheses of decades ago, instead of the current research.
 
Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with Dyson's opinions on climate change, he's clearly a fascinating guy. The NYT article was really a great read.
 
We seem very big to us.

I remember reading a very well written article about how when the oil ran out we would revert to the stone age because we would have no lubricant for complex machines without oil. Even bikes need oil to make their wheels spin.

It was long and listed every terrible thing that would happen and was very convincing.

And it ignored that we could just use oil from plants.

^^^and that's why I don't worry about running out of oil. We aren't even really sure what creates oil in the first place. We just think it's decaying bio-matter. It could be part of the Earth's geologic process.

Also, this old classic seems relevant tot his discussion:

http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html
 
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I'm not going to bother clicking on a "Fox News" link - if you can find the same story being covered by a real news organization feel free to link to it.
 
Al Gore and his cronies will not like this very much...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517035,00.html

I believe the explanation (rationalization?) is that this is proof that warming is putting more water vapor into the atmosphere. This water vapor is causing more snow to fall on Antarctica, thus causing the ice to expand. So you see, global warming is both melting ice at the North Pole and expanding it at the South Pole.

I love a theory that can't be proven wrong!
 
I'm not going to bother clicking on a "Fox News" link - if you can find the same story being covered by a real news organization feel free to link to it.

These days, there are very few media organizations that are worth a damn. Holding prejudice against any of them is almost a complete waste of time.
 
His first sentence points out something I have always wondered about that global warming advocated seem to dance around. Exactly how much does human production need to be scaled back so as not to have this drastic effect on the environment? If the price for global temperature stability is a return to a 17th century way of life where people die by the millions from starvation or disease are people going to come forward and say either "it has to be done" or "it's too high a price we need to just write off global warming"?
 
I love a theory that can't be proven wrong!

I love it too when it takes the form of a scientific law, like the Laws of Motion. These cyclical arguments used to support a bogus political agenda posing as science needs to be stopped.

His first sentence points out something I have always wondered about that global warming advocated seem to dance around. Exactly how much does human production need to be scaled back so as not to have this drastic effect on the environment? If the price for global temperature stability is a return to a 17th century way of life where people die by the millions from starvation or disease are people going to come forward and say either "it has to be done" or "it's too high a price we need to just write off global warming"?

I'm not going back to the 17th Century. The Hippies can go live with the Amish if that's what they want, assuming the Amish don't call them sinners and burn them at the stake.
 
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