http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/08/02/fringe-season-3-scoop/
A Sci Fi show that FOX actually supports? I'm shocked.
Do you believe them?
Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the show'"
- Thread starter Dream
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http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/08/02/fringe-season-3-scoop/
A Sci Fi show that FOX actually supports? I'm shocked.
Do you believe them?
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
I've never bought the myth that FOX doesn't support SF shows. There's no other broadcast network that's bought and aired anywhere near as many SF shows as FOX has (UPN was about tied percentage-wise but much shorter-lived). It's just that most new shows of every type die young, and therefore the network that buys the most SF shows is therefore going to cancel the most SF shows. And if you dwell on the cancellations, it creates the really unfair perception that the network that's most supportive of SF is the least supportive one.
Okay, granted, buying a show in the first place isn't the kind of support you're talking about, the kind that entails trusting and respecting the creators' own decisions. But the regime that micromanaged Firefly to death before it even premiered has been gone from FOX for years. The current FOX network is the one that was incredibly supportive of Dollhouse, giving it a whole second season even though the ratings didn't warrant airing the whole first season. If anything, they were supportive to a fault in Dollhouse's case; a lot of that show's growing pains were the result of FOX putting it into production right away rather than giving it the usual lengthy development process to work out the bugs in advance.
So the old line about "Wow, how amazing that FOX would actually be not evil to a genre show" is really out of date now if it was ever really valid at all.
I've never bought the myth that FOX doesn't support SF shows. There's no other broadcast network that's bought and aired anywhere near as many SF shows as FOX has (UPN was about tied percentage-wise but much shorter-lived). It's just that most new shows of every type die young, and therefore the network that buys the most SF shows is therefore going to cancel the most SF shows. And if you dwell on the cancellations, it creates the really unfair perception that the network that's most supportive of SF is the least supportive one.
Okay, granted, buying a show in the first place isn't the kind of support you're talking about, the kind that entails trusting and respecting the creators' own decisions. But the regime that micromanaged Firefly to death before it even premiered has been gone from FOX for years. The current FOX network is the one that was incredibly supportive of Dollhouse, giving it a whole second season even though the ratings didn't warrant airing the whole first season. If anything, they were supportive to a fault in Dollhouse's case; a lot of that show's growing pains were the result of FOX putting it into production right away rather than giving it the usual lengthy development process to work out the bugs in advance.
So the old line about "Wow, how amazing that FOX would actually be not evil to a genre show" is really out of date now if it was ever really valid at all.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
FOX is full of crap. They interfered by insisting that they don't want the show to be heavily serialized and that is why Fringe has been doing a bunch of recycled boring standalone freak-of-the-week episodes sprinkled with the occasional mythology episodes that are the only bright spots in the series.
Honestly those big mythology episodes are the only thing worth watching FRINGE for--otherwise I would have bailed long ago because the characters are only mildly interesting and the standalones are dull.
FOX is full of crap. They interfered by insisting that they don't want the show to be heavily serialized and that is why Fringe has been doing a bunch of recycled boring standalone freak-of-the-week episodes sprinkled with the occasional mythology episodes that are the only bright spots in the series.
Honestly those big mythology episodes are the only thing worth watching FRINGE for--otherwise I would have bailed long ago because the characters are only mildly interesting and the standalones are dull.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
They just want to keep in good company with JJ Abrams.
They just want to keep in good company with JJ Abrams.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
according to an article in SFX, season 3 will see more 'mythalones' - stories that stand alone, but are still connected to the mythology, like last season's 'White Tulip'. they also said Liv will get home, but not very quickly.
apparently the other Liv is known as 'Bolivia' among the writers, because she's the 'B Olivia'...
according to an article in SFX, season 3 will see more 'mythalones' - stories that stand alone, but are still connected to the mythology, like last season's 'White Tulip'. they also said Liv will get home, but not very quickly.
apparently the other Liv is known as 'Bolivia' among the writers, because she's the 'B Olivia'...
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
I think they kind of screwed with it by putting in on a crowded Thursday night time slot.
I think they kind of screwed with it by putting in on a crowded Thursday night time slot.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
Of course they won't screw with it, in their opinion, this is their X-Files 2.0
Of course they won't screw with it, in their opinion, this is their X-Files 2.0
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
Supernatural is another series that has that bad habit where the episode on its own is a mixed bag but the seeds are the highlights. I say go all myth or all episodic.
I hate those kinds of hybrid stories the worst because it just makes me frustrated that we can't focus entirely on the more interesting mythology and I have to sit through the standalone elements to get to the myth stuff. "Northwest Passage" was a prime example--ultimately a disposable episode whose only highlights are the ways in which it advances or seeds mythology.
Supernatural is another series that has that bad habit where the episode on its own is a mixed bag but the seeds are the highlights. I say go all myth or all episodic.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
But that would only work if all your audience had a single set of tastes or viewing habits, and that's not gonna happen. Every show has a mix of people who are loyal viewers and people who just tune in casually from time to time. So it's necessary to try to find a balance that satisfies both groups -- that rewards loyal viewers with an evolving narrative yet doesn't leave the casual viewers lost and unsatisfied because all they ever get is a fragment of a story.
But that would only work if all your audience had a single set of tastes or viewing habits, and that's not gonna happen. Every show has a mix of people who are loyal viewers and people who just tune in casually from time to time. So it's necessary to try to find a balance that satisfies both groups -- that rewards loyal viewers with an evolving narrative yet doesn't leave the casual viewers lost and unsatisfied because all they ever get is a fragment of a story.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
Maybe you should bail then. After the series has ended you can read a synopsis of the mythology on IMDB or Wikipedia. That way you don't have to waste your time.
Maybe you should bail then. After the series has ended you can read a synopsis of the mythology on IMDB or Wikipedia. That way you don't have to waste your time.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
My basic point is FRINGE has clearly demonstrated that it sucks for the most part at standalone stories and excels at myth episodes--I think most viewers will agree that the myth episodes are the most entertaining and unpredictable.
The standalones, on the otherhand, are predictable and formulaic. There is hardly any effort put into adding a new twist on an old chestnut, you know Olivia/Peter/Walter are in no danger when they are put in jeopardy in the final act, the standalones always count on some last minute pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo to stop the threat and the storylines are similar to stuff most of us have seen dozens of times on other sf/f shows.
In principle, I'm not vehemently opposed to standalones--I loved the TNG and The X-Files standalones--but the problem with FRINGE's one-offs is they are just not very good. For whatever reason, the writers can't make most of them work. If you start counting off all the great episodes of the series you end up naming myth episodes i.e. "August", "The Man from the Other Side", "Ability", "The Road Not Taken", "Momentum Deferred" etc.
Did doing filler help nBSG ratings? I don't think so. Did switching from episodic to an arc in S3 of ENT do it any harm? I would argue no-if anything it helped keep viewers it was losing.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Watching something onscreeen unfold is a much more satisfying experience than reading some synopsis online. Why would I deprive myself the enjoyment of learning revelations or experiencing a twist or some other intriguing plot development in realtime?
My basic point is FRINGE has clearly demonstrated that it sucks for the most part at standalone stories and excels at myth episodes--I think most viewers will agree that the myth episodes are the most entertaining and unpredictable.
The standalones, on the otherhand, are predictable and formulaic. There is hardly any effort put into adding a new twist on an old chestnut, you know Olivia/Peter/Walter are in no danger when they are put in jeopardy in the final act, the standalones always count on some last minute pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo to stop the threat and the storylines are similar to stuff most of us have seen dozens of times on other sf/f shows.
In principle, I'm not vehemently opposed to standalones--I loved the TNG and The X-Files standalones--but the problem with FRINGE's one-offs is they are just not very good. For whatever reason, the writers can't make most of them work. If you start counting off all the great episodes of the series you end up naming myth episodes i.e. "August", "The Man from the Other Side", "Ability", "The Road Not Taken", "Momentum Deferred" etc.
I think most shows have solidified their fanbase by the end of their first season and I doubt being all mythology like LOST is really going to hurt a show like Fringe. The audience that has stuck with them is going to eat up a more heavily serialized approach and the viewers who aren't loyal fans were going to check in intermittently any way.
Did doing filler help nBSG ratings? I don't think so. Did switching from episodic to an arc in S3 of ENT do it any harm? I would argue no-if anything it helped keep viewers it was losing.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
I think you're just a serialized fan who has issues with standalone episodes. I actually liked a lot of the "filler" episodes on BSG, and found the constant twists for the sake of delaying the story on 24 to be stupid. But everyone is entitled to their opinions. Fringe is trying to appeal to a broader base, and since they've now gotten a 3rd season I think they've succeeded.
The procedural fan base is a lot larger than the serialized fan base, and if keeping a procedural element in Fringe can keep a quality Sci Fi show on the air, I'm in favor of it.
I think you're just a serialized fan who has issues with standalone episodes. I actually liked a lot of the "filler" episodes on BSG, and found the constant twists for the sake of delaying the story on 24 to be stupid. But everyone is entitled to their opinions. Fringe is trying to appeal to a broader base, and since they've now gotten a 3rd season I think they've succeeded.
The procedural fan base is a lot larger than the serialized fan base, and if keeping a procedural element in Fringe can keep a quality Sci Fi show on the air, I'm in favor of it.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
That doesn't negate what I said. Just because a show is being regularly watched by a solid, loyal fanbase does not mean that it isn't also being watched by casual viewers who only tune in occasionally and aren't looking for anything more than a self-contained story to occupy them for an hour. The viewing audience is not monolithic. Different types of people watch TV in different ways.
Actually it's hurt a lot of shows over the years. Look at all the series that have tried to emulate Lost's heavy serialization in recent years. Look at how many of them have failed. Too much serialization does alienate viewers -- maybe not the loyal viewers, but definitely the more casual viewers who make up a large segment of the viewing audience. Even Lost and Heroes were subject to complaints for being so hard to get into.
Now, I'm not saying this is right. I'm not saying serialization is bad or that an episodic approach is better. I'm not talking opinions, I'm talking the facts on the ground. Whether you or I like it or not, the fact is that a lot of television viewers are alienated by heavy serialization. And network executives aren't running a charity, they're running a business, and so they have to try to appeal to the largest possible number of viewers in order to maximize their profits. It's not an issue of what we believe should be the case, it's an issue of what concretely is the case.
It's just oversimplistic to assume you can make a show succeed by doing only one thing, by embracing only one factor. Reality is not that elementary. You can't say that the same formula is guaranteed to succeed or fail in every case. There are too many factors that influence ratings, too many different degrees and ratios of serial and episodic elements, to be able to reduce the issue to a simplistic either-or question like that.
From what I've heard, apparently Fringe does have a fair-sized complement of viewers who do indeed enjoy the standalone episodes. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they don't exist or that FOX should ignore them.
That doesn't negate what I said. Just because a show is being regularly watched by a solid, loyal fanbase does not mean that it isn't also being watched by casual viewers who only tune in occasionally and aren't looking for anything more than a self-contained story to occupy them for an hour. The viewing audience is not monolithic. Different types of people watch TV in different ways.
Actually it's hurt a lot of shows over the years. Look at all the series that have tried to emulate Lost's heavy serialization in recent years. Look at how many of them have failed. Too much serialization does alienate viewers -- maybe not the loyal viewers, but definitely the more casual viewers who make up a large segment of the viewing audience. Even Lost and Heroes were subject to complaints for being so hard to get into.
Now, I'm not saying this is right. I'm not saying serialization is bad or that an episodic approach is better. I'm not talking opinions, I'm talking the facts on the ground. Whether you or I like it or not, the fact is that a lot of television viewers are alienated by heavy serialization. And network executives aren't running a charity, they're running a business, and so they have to try to appeal to the largest possible number of viewers in order to maximize their profits. It's not an issue of what we believe should be the case, it's an issue of what concretely is the case.
It's just oversimplistic to assume you can make a show succeed by doing only one thing, by embracing only one factor. Reality is not that elementary. You can't say that the same formula is guaranteed to succeed or fail in every case. There are too many factors that influence ratings, too many different degrees and ratios of serial and episodic elements, to be able to reduce the issue to a simplistic either-or question like that.
From what I've heard, apparently Fringe does have a fair-sized complement of viewers who do indeed enjoy the standalone episodes. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't mean they don't exist or that FOX should ignore them.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
V is serialized but that's not its problem--its bland characters, poor pacing, and uninteresting aliens with no clear motive that apes way too many standard alien ptropes.
Flash Forward failed because of bland characters, not being well written and having a more focused approach.
And they can enjoy a myth episode just as well as a standalone given the recaps at the beginning.
I think it is far more complicated than assigning blame to serialization. Heroes when it first debuted was doing astronomical numbers and it was heavily serialized. It lost viewers because the writing got bad.
V is serialized but that's not its problem--its bland characters, poor pacing, and uninteresting aliens with no clear motive that apes way too many standard alien ptropes.
Flash Forward failed because of bland characters, not being well written and having a more focused approach.
But serialized shows can do well if they are well written and interesting i.e. LOST, S1 Heroes, the early years of 24. All I'm saying is Fringe has struggled on FOX and I don't see that now that we have two seasons behind us they can't start doing more myth episodes.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
The one thing you can say about serialized shows is that their viewers always trend downward. The only question is how quick the trend is. Switching to a more serialized format now will only ensure that Fringe's viewers continue to trend further down.
The one thing you can say about serialized shows is that their viewers always trend downward. The only question is how quick the trend is. Switching to a more serialized format now will only ensure that Fringe's viewers continue to trend further down.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
If their standalones episodes will still have a little mytharc in them then that's a great sign. The show sounds like it'll be better than ever.
If their standalones episodes will still have a little mytharc in them then that's a great sign. The show sounds like it'll be better than ever.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
Mr Papaya agrees!
If their standalones episodes will still have a little mytharc in them then that's a great sign. The show sounds like it'll be better than ever.
Mr Papaya agrees!
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
That's not necessarily a bad thing. In my opinion, it'll tighten the writing since another season isn't guaranteed and shows with good ratings go on waaaaay past the point when they should have ended i.e. 24, Smallville etc because networks don't want to abandon a show with ratings no matter how crappy it has become.
Re: Fox to Fringe fans: 'We have no intention of screwing with the sho
Until you end up with a serialized show ending on a cliffhanger and then being canceled for its plummeting ratings.
Until you end up with a serialized show ending on a cliffhanger and then being canceled for its plummeting ratings.