Forget about what's been altered...

[Thinkey]

for a second, lets concentrate on what's not been altered -race / planet wise.

I think its safe to say that the Borg, the Dominion and anything in the delta quadrant is still progressing in this universe as we know it to be....basically given the original first contact dates of races, there are probably still a LOT of the ST universe that is quite intact. It's only their meeting the federation will change.

I think its an interesting thought...they have the opportunity to approach the same events but with a different character perspective.

From my POV right now i think its still safe to say that the Dominion war will still happen for example, however relations will change between with the Federation and the Romulan empire now...whether it be for good or worse...it could ultimately change the side that the romulan empire ends up on in that war for example. (it wont change the fact that the dominion at some point will end up with some presence in the alpha quadrant therefore leading to a war).

Up until the initial contact begins, the dominion's history will still play ou the same for example...anything thereafter will be an AU version...so the war may end 3 months earlier or later, or the Federation could implode.

To me, that's the power of this new storyline...it offers a fresh perspective to a very old and comfortable shoe to all of us, so to speak.

 

[donners22]

Ah, but in this timeline, Kirk may not stop the Doomsday Machine, which will eat up all the homeworlds of the major powers...

 

[Temis the Vorta]

My philosophy is that anything that is not outright prohibited will most likely still happen. For example, Journey to Babel won't have Amanda and Spock may not be quite as estranged - or estranged at all - from his father, but the rest of it could very well still take place.

The biggest changes oddly enough are implied by Old Spock's continued presence in the new timeline. Since he can warn Starfleet about various threats, a large number of episodes will be prevented before they have a chance to get going (The Doomsday Machine, Devil in the Dark, Space Seed, the list goes on.)

Here's a conundrum - will Old Spock see fit to warn Kirk away from the Guardian of Forever planet? At the very least, he should warn Bones to be careful with that hypospray. Will he impishly decide that The Naked Time should go forward as planned, not wanting to deprive his younger self of yet another chance to kill Kirk?

The number of episodes that Old Spock wouldn't want to interfere with are pretty small, but here's one: Mirror, Mirror. Warning Kirk et al about the transporter problem will prevent alt-Spock from overthrowing the evil Terran Empire (although as Niners know, it really didn't do any good in the end...)

I'm glad that Old Spock has no clue about the Dominion or the Borg. Don't want the old codger spoiling all our fun.

 

[donners22]

^ Why wouldn't Spock know about the Borg or Dominion? He was certainly around at the time, and I imagine word of such things would spread quite freely.

 

[dave_R_treker]

Ah, but in this timeline, Kirk may not stop the Doomsday Machine, which will eat up all the homeworlds of the major powers...

or won't be able to stop V'GER or that probe form TVH.

 

[Bill Morris]

Nothing has been altered. This movie is not canon. It's clearly stated on the warning label: "This is not your father's Star Trek."

 

[Akalabeth]

I don't understand the need to put this movie in context with established stories. It's essentially a reboot. What happened in the old shows happened in the old shows, but nothing that happened there is necessarily going to happen again. I'm also confused as to why matters outside of the TOS timeline are even being considered (Borg?? Dominion????).

TOS deals with only a few races: Klingons, Romulans, Orions, Tholians, Andorians and whatever else showed up from time to time. None of this other stuff particular matters in my mind.

Though if you simply MUST know about future events, then the only questions that really matters is: "Did Janeway's ancestor die, and if so will Paramount still completely ruin the Borg?"

 

[TrekGuide.com]

Now that they have transwarp beaming, Scotty could just teleport a tri-cobalt torpedo into V'Ger from his beach house on Risa.

Ambassador Spock could use Admiral Janeway's transphasic torpedoes to blow up the doomsday machine. (Right after he e-mails the Klingon Empire the cure for the Augment virus.)

Then the Federation could use the Hirogen subspace relay network to contact the Krenim Imperium and set up an alliance to defeat the Borg 100 years before the original first contact.

They could use a gravitational slingshot to pre-emptively pick up some whales from Earth's past -- enough to begin breeding -- before the probe arrives on Stardate 8390.1.

The Federation, Romulans, Cardassians, and Klingons could form an alliance and use the Bajoran wormhole to make a pre-emptive strike against the Dominion, then use the Iconian gateways to conquer the entire Galaxy, so that by 2300, there will be a Galactic Alliance stretching from Talaxia to the Founders' homeworld to the Breen Confederacy and the Gorn Hegemony.

I mean, as long as Spock is screwing up the timeline, he may as well go all-out.

 

[Islander]

I think its safe to say that the Borg, the Dominion and anything in the delta quadrant is still progressing in this universe as we know it to be....basically given the original first contact dates of races, there are probably still a LOT of the ST universe that is quite intact. It's only their meeting the federation will change.

...

From my POV right now i think its still safe to say that the Dominion war will still happen for example, however relations will change between with the Federation and the Romulan empire now...whether it be for good or worse...it could ultimately change the side that the romulan empire ends up on in that war for example. (it wont change the fact that the dominion at some point will end up with some presence in the alpha quadrant therefore leading to a war).

Writter can come up with ways to do, or not do whatever they want. Yes, logically, the events of the movie did not impact the Delta or Gamma quadrant. But their meeting was highly incidental. The Bejoran wormhole was discovered accidentally on our side. Any political change impacting one race could impact the next, and the next... and may endup completely changing the Cardassian occupation for example and that wormhole may never be discovered. The same is applicable to Voyager (exactly the same given the Maquis where is dispute with the Cardassians as well).

It think it's clear this new Trek is headed in a different direction anyway, we may see past elements as references, cameos, but nothing more. And I hope, in fact, that they don't fall in the lazyness trap of just redoing existing stories, regardless if they are twisted or not.

 

[Thinkey]

^ Why wouldn't Spock know about the Borg or Dominion? He was certainly around at the time, and I imagine word of such things would spread quite freely.

Yeah...isnt the ship he piloted back in time built AFTER the dominion war?

 

[Thinkey]

Now that they have transwarp beaming, Scotty could just teleport a tri-cobalt torpedo into V'Ger from his beach house on Risa.

Ambassador Spock could use Admiral Janeway's transphasic torpedoes to blow up the doomsday machine. (Right after he e-mails the Klingon Empire the cure for the Augment virus.)

Then the Federation could use the Hirogen subspace relay network to contact the Krenim Imperium and set up an alliance to defeat the Borg 100 years before the original first contact.

They could use a gravitational slingshot to pre-emptively pick up some whales from Earth's past -- enough to begin breeding -- before the probe arrives on Stardate 8390.1.

The Federation, Romulans, Cardassians, and Klingons could form an alliance and use the Bajoran wormhole to make a pre-emptive strike against the Dominion, then use the Iconian gateways to conquer the entire Galaxy, so that by 2300, there will be a Galactic Alliance stretching from Talaxia to the Founders' homeworld to the Breen Confederacy and the Gorn Hegemony.

I mean, as long as Spock is screwing up the timeline, he may as well go all-out.

*thumbs up* now there's some thinking!

I'm kinda reminded of the Babylon 5 quote from WWE: "I'll take it back because I've always taken it, and I always will. It's already happened."

Alternate timeline or not...I think the greater whole of the universe NOT being affected like this will react very fluidly over the timeline.

Major events will still happen, the players may very well be different however - at least on the federation's side.

 

[Thinkey]

I think its safe to say that the Borg, the Dominion and anything in the delta quadrant is still progressing in this universe as we know it to be....basically given the original first contact dates of races, there are probably still a LOT of the ST universe that is quite intact. It's only their meeting the federation will change.

...

From my POV right now i think its still safe to say that the Dominion war will still happen for example, however relations will change between with the Federation and the Romulan empire now...whether it be for good or worse...it could ultimately change the side that the romulan empire ends up on in that war for example. (it wont change the fact that the dominion at some point will end up with some presence in the alpha quadrant therefore leading to a war).

Writter can come up with ways to do, or not do whatever they want. Yes, logically, the events of the movie did not impact the Delta or Gamma quadrant. But their meeting was highly incidental. The Bejoran wormhole was discovered accidentally on our side. Any political change impacting one race could impact the next, and the next... and may endup completely changing the Cardassian occupation for example and that wormhole may never be discovered. The same is applicable to Voyager (exactly the same given the Maquis where is dispute with the Cardassians as well).

It think it's clear this new Trek is headed in a different direction anyway, we may see past elements as references, cameos, but nothing more. And I hope, in fact, that they don't fall in the lazyness trap of just redoing existing stories, regardless if they are twisted or not.

You notice spock's insistance that kirk be captain however? What if older spock is old and wise enough now that knowing by making sure that 1 event happens in the end, as it should be, that the rest of the timeline of the federation will play out SOMEWHAT as it did once before?

Time is fluid maybe...you pour water over a car say, and midway the stream you stick your finger in it, it alters the course of the water, but generally after a foot or so it regains its form...with Kirk still being captain I gather that with the exception of the relationship with the vulcans and romulands, the federations's political history will remain remakrably similiar to what we know of.

Besides, with Vulcan gone what are we potentially loosing here? Tuvok? That isnt a huge change. Unless any of the ancestors of the rest of the ST universe were on the kelvin, its safe to assume that 97% did live to the day.

Its a huge character / enviromental change for the chracters right now to what we've seen in the past - but you go 75 years from that point in the future to Picard...will it really look that much different?

 

[Thinkey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Star_Trek

Spock goes back in time becuase of Nero in 2387 - 12 years after the dominion war, 10 years after voyager arrives home, and 8 years after nemesis.

Old Spock knows everything and then some I'd say.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

12 years after the dominion war

Wow, that's a long time. I wonder how Federation and Dominion relations were during that 12 year post war period.

 

[Ayelbourne]

^^Just read the DS9 Relaunch.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

^^Just read the DS9 Relaunch.

Not Canon.

 

[Ayelbourne]

So what?
There is no Canon about this anyway, since there is nothing onscreen. And there never will be.

 

[Peter the Younger]

The whole question of Old Spock's knowledge is ripe for future exploitation - and abuse. If not touched on outright by the movies, could be fodder for a short series of novels (and probably will be, considering how obvious it is.) You have to expect that at some point, the new Spock will try to consult the Old Spock for special knowledge. This could be cool if done well - like going to the mountain to talk to the oracle - or awful, if they go there too often, or if Old Spock doesn't share helpful information for the sake of making the plot go.

The more I think about it, the more it seems they should either deal with the question head on by writing a storyline centered on it, or have Old Spock realize it is too much of a Pandora's box, and quietly slip away.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Spock's knowledge of the future has become moot for a large part, simply because the future has been altered.

He has, at best clues.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

This movie is not canon.

Yes it is, by definition.

It's all the nonsense that some fans want Star Trek to be, that it isn't, which are only "fanon."