Forbidden Planet Morbius's job

[Gov Kodos]

Going into unknown space isn't a survival situation? 7-11 isn't down the street. Yes, exploration into unknown territory is a survival situation. All that spaceship can count on having and using is what they are carrying with them. Taking anything just on the off chance it may be useful is a good way to be carrying a lot of useless material that leaves you up shit creek. From what is said in the film, the Bellerophon is not the first such mission to a new world. Missions would likely be tailored with the purpose of the mission in mind, and with all the available information on the place your sending the crew. This assemblage would be done based on the experience of previous kinds of missions to other similar conditions.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

To clarify: the deleted conversation between Adams and Ostrow is explicit that no intelligent extraterrestrial life has been discovered up to this point. However, they're having the conversation because they're both very aware that it's a possibility.

 

[Christopher]

Going into unknown space isn't a survival situation?

It's a matter of priority. "Survival situation" means that minimizing risk is your top priority. But as a noted interstellar explorer once said, "Risk is our business!" Discovery means taking chances, and that includes the chance of bringing something along that you'll turn out not to need.

In fact, I disagree completely with your view that survival requires not bringing extra potentials along. On the contrary, you want to be prepared for the unexpected. That's why you keep jumper cables and a spare tire and a first-aid kit in the trunk of your car. That's why you pay for insurance when you go on a flight. You don't know if you'll need those things, but it's good survival sense to have them on hand just in case. So I really don't follow your logic at all.

 

[Gov Kodos]

You mention priority, what priority exists to bring a philologist? Jumper cables, ignore them if you think you won't need to work with batteries and electrical systems. Is that likely? Ignore the medical supplies because you think no one is going to get sick or be injured. Is that likely? Ignore bringing a highly trained philologist because there is no evidence of alien life. The crew needs to be reasonably capable of saying hi on their own. Unless intelligent life is commonly found, whats the likelihood that makes it reasonable to bring someone whose skills have no application? Risk exists in most any adventure, folly is increasing risks to no purpose. Taking someone trained in something that has no use to the mission strikes me as more folly than risk.

If your going to bring the philologist, why not a sociologist and a historian, just in case so you can analyze the alien culture and its past. Probably should bring a lawyer who can negotiate in with laws and customs in mind so we can reduce diplomatic risks. Just in case. It's folly to carry these folks, if there is no one to talk to. But risk is our business?

My Name is Legion wrote:

To clarify: the deleted conversation between Adams and Ostrow is explicit that no intelligent extraterrestrial life has been discovered up to this point. However, they're having the conversation because they're both very aware that it's a possibility.

I recall Cmdr Adams sounding surprised the mission had a philologist on board. Perhaps they felt that was enough to imply the deleted scene. Intelligent life hadn't yet been found, so Adams wouldn't expect to find a linguist on a planetary expedition.

 

[Christopher]

Ignore bringing a highly trained philologist because there is no evidence of alien life.

Again, I reject that as an incompetent formulation of the situation. They have no evidence for or against the presence of alien life. It's dishonest to phrase that in the one-sided way you have, and thereby force your desired conclusion. It's circular argument and it's a logical cheat.

Look at Mars. We've been sending probes there for half a century and haven't found any conclusive evidence of life. But one of the main objectives of the Curiosity rover which landed last week is to attempt to detect the building blocks of life. You don't just assume something isn't worth looking for because you haven't found it yet. That's not how science works.

The crew needs to be reasonably capable of saying hi on their own.

Uhh, yeah, which is why they brought a language guy along!

Unless intelligent life is commonly found, whats the likelihood that makes it reasonable to bring someone whose skills have no application?

You keep ignoring the point about cross-training, which I think is another dishonest tactic. I'm not interested in debating with someone who can't engage the topic honestly.

If your going to bring the philologist, why not a sociologist and a historian, just in case so you can analyze the alien culture and its past.

How the hell do you know they didn't? We were never given the Bellerophon's entire crew manifest.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I haven't made an assumption of no intelligent life, I just don't see the need for someone so highly trained when the guarantee of need for such extensive training is very low. I don't see why someone so highly trained would mothball their career on Earth without a reasonable chance of pursuing it off world.

I haven't been ignoring cross training, I see no reason for someone so highly trained in language deciphering on the off chance maybe it could be needed. Some folks (maybe the communications and computer experts) can take a six month course with Dr Morbius to get the basics for such low probability of alien encounter.

What you seem to propose is bring everything and the kitchen sink. It's a recipe for being overstuffed with non-essential material and at a loss on things one can predict needful for survival and success of your mission.

 

[the G-man]

What you seem to propose is bring everything and the kitchen sink. It's a recipe for being overstuffed with non-essential material and at a loss on things one can predict needful for survival and success of your mission.

Not if the mission was, ala "Trek," to seek out new life and new civilizations. Perhaps they were specifically targeting planets that they thought had might have civilizations or past civilizations.

 

[DWF]

known[/I] whether or not it was inhabited.

Do you think Cyril Hume or any of the other writers knew what a philologist does, outside of a general definition?

I mean first of all it's a reference to The Tempest and I don't think it was really meant to be dwelt on that much.

 

[Gov Kodos]

known[/I] whether or not it was inhabited.

Do you think Cyril Hume or any of the other writers knew what a philologist does, outside of a general definition?

I mean first of all it's a reference to The Tempest and I don't think it was really meant to be dwelt on that much.

I doubt they thought much about it. The story just needed someone who could decipher languages as Redfern pointed out in the second post, and no real need was seen for explaining why he was there beyond that. There really isn't a need for one, but it brings up thoughts that I'd like to see a prequel film made to answer.

I could see a film start with a simple survey ship arriving finding Altair habitable but no sign of intelligence. While there they find native life but encounter the geese (I think it was) Morbius mentions in the film, and perhaps some other creature or plant that is native to neither Earth or Altair. Enough to say there must have been life on Altair. Ground penetrating radar scans show remains of civilization in the area of the Krell machine. which prompts the sending of the Belerephon.

Morbius I can imagine is trained in philology and perhaps archeology. He is on the mission to investigate the ruins. News isn't widely distributed about past intelligent life on Altair because the authorities want to prevent some futuristic Schliemann destroying half the site in search of his alien Troy. When the Krell machine is found and mayhem starts there is quite a large story one can tell.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The Enterprise had a useless historian aboard, and that worked out swimmingly.

 

[Gov Kodos]

The Enterprise had a useless historian aboard, and that worked out swimmingly.

At least twice, you can't trust liberal arts majors.

 

[Klaus]

I could use quite a bit of useless if it looks like Marla McGyvers....

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I get the point, but why a philologist at all to a planet with no intelligent life known to exist there?

Because it takes a long time and a great effort to get places in Forbidden Planet compared to Star Trek, and the implication of the twenty year gap before checking up on the Belleorphon party suggests that it was an even more arduous journey in Morbius's day. The humans in FP are very much conscious of the possibility of finding intelligent life (Adams and Ostrow discuss this directly in a scene cut from the final film), so it's reasonable that the UP would send a few specialists who would be important to a first contact along on a long-range scientific mission.

Note that the Bellerophon doesn't seem to have been a military craft like the C-57D - the only crew members specifically mentioned other than the captain were scientists, whereas the only apparent scientist on the C-57D may be Ostrow.

That sounds good, if intelligent life is commonly found on habitable planets. It would have been good to have that cut scene for me. Otherwise, the captain's curiosity at discovering Morbius's job seems to indicate having a philologist on such an expedition isn't really common. Or his perspective is just shaped by the military, and doesn't see the need for such an academic subject on an exploratory mission. I imagine robot probes would be useful in exploration in the FP Universe since travel time is long in interstellar flight. A robot probe could have detected the power signature of the Great Machine, just as the C57D did, and the crew was assembled on a belief in a high likelihood of intelligent life on Altair IV.

According to http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/f/forbidden-planet-script-transcript-leslie.html (not a perfect transcript, but I couldn't readily find a better one), the word "philologist" occurs in two scenes. The first is when Morbius makes radio contact, and the second is right after lunch at his estate.

In the second scene, Adams explains a philologist to be "an expert in words and languages." In-universe, defining the term out loud underscores his point that Morbius appears to lack the qualifications to build Robby. But also, no doubt a secondary function of the dialog is to explain to the audience what a "philologist" is.

As for the first scene, it is Doc Ostrow who utters the line "Philologist?", not Adams, and rather than conveying curiosity, I read the delivery as conveying Doc being impressed, as in Gee, they thought of everything.

---

On the issue of whether the Krell machine radar-scanned the Bellerophon when it first approached, here are some further thoughts and questions.

First, it's pretty clear that Altair IV had been surveyed before the Bellerophon expedition, because the crew was checking the continents against the "old charts" on first approach, and Morbius asks Adams to refer to "standard charts" when dictating the landing coordinates. If the Bellerophon was radar-scanned when it first approached, then I doubt that the survey which made the old charts got very close to the planet, or else it should have been radar-scanned too and the C57-D crew would have known to expect this. On the other hand, if the Bellerophon were not radar-scanned, then that removes any such constraints on the trajectories of earlier survey craft.

Second, immediately after the radar scan is when Morbius calls the ship, and he makes reference to the ship being tracked. Now, this could be Morbius interpreting the operation of the machine as preset by the Krell. Indeed, later he makes reference to the fact that the machine registered the approach of the ship from deep space, perhaps even well before the radar scan. Or, on the other hand, did Morbius figure out how to trigger a radar scan from the Krell machine, to scan an object the machine had already detected approaching from deep space?

Third, Morbius speaks of a minor alteration performed throughout the machine "years ago." What was the alteration, why does he think it was performed, and when did it supposedly occur? I've always assumed that it was his use of the machine that triggered the alteration, and that the alteration was the instantiation of the mechanism to objectify his desires, including that for seclusion. Could such an alteration include watching deep space for approaching Earth ships? Or, is the deep space detecting process just a function of the machine as intended by the Krell, and an extension of the mechanism that registers birds and deer?

 

[Gov Kodos]

According to http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/f/forbidden-planet-script-transcript-leslie.html (not a perfect transcript, but I couldn't readily find a better one), the word "philologist" occurs in two scenes. The first is when Morbius makes radio contact, and the second is right after lunch at his estate.

In the second scene, Adams explains a philologist to be "an expert in words and languages." In-universe, defining the term out loud underscores his point that Morbius appears to lack the qualifications to build Robby. But also, no doubt a secondary function of the dialog is to explain to the audience what a "philologist" is.

As for the first scene, it is Doc Ostrow who utters the line "Philologist?", not Adams, and rather than conveying curiosity, I read the delivery as conveying Doc being impressed, as in Gee, they thought of everything.

---

On the issue of whether the Krell machine radar-scanned the Bellerophon when it first approached, here are some further thoughts and questions.

First, it's pretty clear that Altair IV had been surveyed before the Bellerophon expedition, because the crew was checking the continents against the "old charts" on first approach, and Morbius asks Adams to refer to "standard charts" when dictating the landing coordinates. If the Bellerophon was radar-scanned when it first approached, then I doubt that the survey which made the old charts got very close to the planet, or else it should have been radar-scanned too and the C57-D crew would have known to expect this. On the other hand, if the Bellerophon were not radar-scanned, then that removes any such constraints on the trajectories of earlier survey craft.

Second, immediately after the radar scan is when Morbius calls the ship, and he makes reference to the ship being tracked. Now, this could be Morbius interpreting the operation of the machine as preset by the Krell. Indeed, later he makes reference to the fact that the machine registered the approach of the ship from deep space, perhaps even well before the radar scan. Or, on the other hand, did Morbius figure out how to trigger a radar scan from the Krell machine, to scan an object the machine had already detected approaching from deep space?

Third, Morbius speaks of a minor alteration performed throughout the machine "years ago." What was the alteration, why does he think it was performed, and when did it supposedly occur? I've always assumed that it was his use of the machine that triggered the alteration, and that the alteration was the instantiation of the mechanism to objectify his desires, including that for seclusion. Could such an alteration include watching deep space for approaching Earth ships? Or, is the deep space detecting process just a function of the machine as intended by the Krell, and an extension of the mechanism that registers birds and deer?

Thanks for the description of the outset, it's been a while and was going more on memory of the initial conversation about Morbius. His being listed on the crew manifest (I assume that's what they are referring to) as philologist does make them remarkably prepared.

I agree with the part about standard charts. I'd expect some sort of basic survey to have been done before sending a fully teamed mission. Of course they had no ground penetrating radar in the 50's, but that would be able to find some remains below ground of civilization, the great machine certainly.

The source of the radar scan is unknown, I assumed it was the Krell machine, but it could be equipment from the Bellerofon, too. There's nothing to say how the final evacuation was handled, or what equipment might have been left behind.

I hadn't thought of the nature of the alteration Morbius mentioned. I had always considered it just automatic upkeep and repair, but adjusting to operating for Morbius's mind is a likely possibility as well.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The source of the radar scan is unknown, I assumed it was the Krell machine, but it could be equipment from the Bellerofon, too. There's nothing to say how the final evacuation was handled, or what equipment might have been left behind.

Yeah. The main reason I assume it was the Krell machine performing the radar scan was, as I said upthread, because of the dimensions of the area from which the scan originated. Otherwise, why specify on area exactly the same size as a face of the Krell machine? Additionally, Morbius does specifically mention that the Krell machine registered the arrival of the ship.

Perhaps also, Morbius managed to hook up some spare Bellerofon astrogation equipment with the Krell machine. Morbius has some means of interpreting the significance of the activation of the Krell power dials; what were they?

Or, another thought, maybe Morbius was experimenting with the Krell replicators, known to exist from the description of how Robby worked. Perhaps Morbius had simply replicated Bellerofon radar equipment, which produced a radar array exactly the same size as a face of the machine.

Or, maybe Morbius figured out how to make the whole Krell machine mimic Bellerofon radar equipment.

 

[Gov Kodos]

The source of the radar scan is unknown, I assumed it was the Krell machine, but it could be equipment from the Bellerofon, too. There's nothing to say how the final evacuation was handled, or what equipment might have been left behind.

Yeah. The main reason I assume it was the Krell machine performing the radar scan was, as I said upthread, because of the dimensions of the area from which the scan originated. Otherwise, why specify on area exactly the same size as a face of the Krell machine? Additionally, Morbius does specifically mention that the Krell machine registered the arrival of the ship.

Perhaps also, Morbius managed to hook up some spare Bellerofon astrogation equipment with the Krell machine. Morbius has some means of interpreting the significance of the activation of the Krell power dials; what were they?

Or, another thought, maybe Morbius was experimenting with the Krell replicators, known to exist from the description of how Robby worked. Perhaps Morbius had simply replicated Bellerofon radar equipment, which produced a radar array exactly the same size as a face of the machine.

Or, maybe Morbius figured out how to make the whole Krell machine mimic Bellerofon radar equipment.

Yes, I'd guess the machine as a source for the radar as well, as you mention, the dimensions are those for the surface of the machine.

Robby is an interesting character. Do you suppose he's tinkered together entirely from scratch, or is he an adaptation of a repair robot for the machine? Or, given the machine's function, would it need repair robots? Could we expect that it could just manifest repaired equipment and parts wherever and whenever it needed them?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Robby is an interesting character. Do you suppose he's tinkered together entirely from scratch, or is he an adaptation of a repair robot for the machine? Or, given the machine's function, would it need repair robots? Could we expect that it could just manifest repaired equipment and parts wherever and whenever it needed them?

Good questions.

---

Third, Morbius speaks of a minor alteration performed throughout the machine "years ago." What was the alteration, why does he think it was performed, and when did it supposedly occur? I've always assumed that it was his use of the machine that triggered the alteration, and that the alteration was the instantiation of the mechanism to objectify his desires, including that for seclusion. Could such an alteration include watching deep space for approaching Earth ships? Or, is the deep space detecting process just a function of the machine as intended by the Krell, and an extension of the mechanism that registers birds and deer?

The transcript I mentioned, at http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/f/forbidden-planet-script-transcript-leslie.html, seems to be devoid of many numbers, at least in my browser (perhaps the transcriber intended to render them differently). Upon rewatching the part of the movie in question, I'm reminded that the alteration occurred sixteen years ago. But Morbius dug the graves with his bare hands nineteen years ago, so I guess that would tend to undermine my assumption about what the alteration was. That makes it all the more puzzling to me.

 

[Gov Kodos]

One possibility could be that the machine is altering to respond to Altaira. Her control of the animals could be a subconscious control provided by the machine. At the time of the alteration Altaira would be 3 or 4 years old, and becoming mobile even getting out of the house on her own. Morbius's concern for her safety manifests in a subconscious protective command that results in Altaira's ability to influence the animals. The machine's adjustments could be reflective of such a hypothetical command.

Perhaps, nervousness about revealing her relationship to Adams is reflected in the tiger attack. Rather than a loss of control, her subconscious fear is sent through the machine and results in the tiger attacking rather than remaining docile? Her subconscious control may not be as profound as Morbius, but could be developing as she grows up?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

One possibility could be that the machine is altering to respond to Altaira. Her control of the animals could be a subconscious control provided by the machine. At the time of the alteration Altaira would be 3 or 4 years old, and becoming mobile even getting out of the house on her own. Morbius's concern for her safety manifests in a subconscious protective command that results in Altaira's ability to influence the animals. The machine's adjustments could be reflective of such a hypothetical command.

This is intriguing.

I don't buy that Altaira herself had any psychic control over the animals through the Krell machine, whether conscious or subconscious, witting or otherwise. But I might buy that the machine ensured that the animals accepted and protected Altaira, as long as she conformed to the vision of purity that Morbius had for her. Otherwise, I can't see why the tiger would turn on her.

Upon considering your idea, it occurs to me that perhaps Morbius's 3D living image of Altaira that he demonstrated had a deeper significance than he realized. Perhaps on some level the machine was tasked to preserve that image in reality. That scene does suggest the possibility of an unintended connection between Altaira and the machine.

As for why Morbius characterized the animals as being under his daughter's influence, parents often idealize and exaggerate their children's abilities. The power of the machine allowed many of his delusions to go unchecked by reality.

I think it's reasonable to assume that the function of the Krell machine to objectify thought is activated only when the switch is pulled that nearly killed Morbius. Morbius would never allow Altaira to use that function, even though he may have occasionally done what he thought was testing her intelligence with the educator.

 

[Gov Kodos]

It could be Morbius, I suppose, who's subconscious command is preventing the animals from attacking Altaira. They may even share a degree of control. Just as Altaira could over ride the commands to Robby, Morbius's subconscious could over ride Altaira's control over the animals.

Whoever might have some control of the animals, the scene doesn't have to lead to the 'virgin and the unicorn' test though the imagery of the scene strongly implies it. Though, it would more suggest that your right about Morbius having control of the animals, rather than Altaira.

The tiger could have been attacking the Commander rather than Altaira. Standing together as they were, it is hard to say who it was going after. Altaira's surprise could be put down to shock that the tiger was aggressive at all.

All this implies that Morbius had some sort of surveillance so he could see what was going on topside. Not at all unlikely, as he comes along not long after the tiger attack.