"Forbidden Planet" as TOS prequel?

[larryman]

So, given that Forbidden Planet and ST:TOS don't merge well, which would be preferred...

the J.J. Abrams ST:TOS reboot universe (with the ENT prequel era); or a '100-years-later' Forbidden Planet sequel universe (allowing eventual encounter with Vulcans, and development of Constitution-class warpdrive patrol ships - having flying saucer shuttlecraft and robots)?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The Id Monster and the Krell are much, much cooler aliens than Trek has managed for the most part - because they are alien. That the Krell themselves never appear as characters - they're ghosts, really, and most of what we imagine that we know about them as creatures is inferred rather than shown - is a very, very neat approach to conjuring up something really strange and otherworldly.

Trek has only managed that once in a great while, and most effectively a couple of times on TOS - the Tholians are a great example; the Metrons and Balok pretty successful at least until the moment that they had to be represented by actors on screen. Hell, for all its bendy rubber joints even the Gorn is an interesting alien.

Trek uses aliens instead as human dramatic characters - a coat of paint and some made-up nouns doesn't make these people into something other.

If there's a future to the Forbidden Planet universe, I want to see Krell and Id and (at most) Tholian-type aliens, not Vulcans and Bajorans and Klingons.

 

[Dukhat]

Have we ever seen a Romulan cry?

Exactly my point. Saying that someone who looks Vulcan is actually half-Romulan only because she was seen crying doesn't hold much water, pardon the pun.

But hey, this thread isn't about Saavik's emotional problems, it's about Forbidden Planet as a Star Trek prequel.

 

[Basil]

Or a human?

That is, a human male?

Not before TNG, I guess. In TOS, only the women were allowed to weep. Even our closest call, "City on the Edge of Forever", had Kirk at best lifting his hand to his eye as if to wipe a tear, then never complete the move. No onion was used to produce an actual moisture effect...

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x28hd/thecityontheedgeofforeverhd903.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

Ben Finney appears to be sobbing in "Court Martial" when Kirk confronts him, though I don't believe any actual tears were shown.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Saavik's backstory is that she's half-Romulan, and that backstory has been widely distributed from authoritative sources.

So, until some future on-screen story comes out and contradicts that backstory, she's half Vulcan, half Romulan.

 

[Kegg]

the Tholians are a great example; the Metrons and Balok pretty successful at least until the moment that they had to be represented by actors on screen.

The Metrons? I dunno, even before their shimmery Greek god appearance I'd just pegged them as yet another Star Trek deity alien.

Otherwise, yeah, Forbidden Planet kept its aliens more alien. They were also largely unseen - either invisible or long dead. It's a good approach for a movie but unless the weekly series is about grave robbers in outer space (Ed Wood, call your agent) it's limiting as far as sequels go.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The Metrons? I dunno, even before their shimmery Greek god appearance I'd just pegged them as yet another Star Trek deity alien.

"Just another" depends on where - or when - you're coming from. They were, in fact, one of the first.

Otherwise, yeah, Forbidden Planet kept its aliens more alien. They were also largely unseen - either invisible or long dead. It's a good approach for a movie but unless the weekly series is about grave robbers in outer space (Ed Wood, call your agent) it's limiting as far as sequels go.

It's completely unnecessary to litter a space series with aliens every week, particularly when the "aliens" are as lame as most of Star Trek's.

In the first year of TOS, BTW, there were ten or twelve episodes out of twenty-seven (counting both parts of "The Menagerie" as a single story) in which aliens other than Spock appeared on screen. Most were more-or-less human. Whether you put the Salt Sucker into the "human" category or lump it in with the decidedly non-human Horta is a judgment call, I suppose. In several of those shows, the alien appearence was token - the old guys at the end of "Charlie X" and "Shore Leave" for example.

In most cases, with adjustments in story details the aliens in Star Trek could just as easily be humans, as there isn't enough cultural or physical difference between them and human beings for it to matter to the story. Allow for a longer period of deep space colonization prior to the beginning of the series, and exactly the same essential stories could be told in the case of episodes like "Return Of The Archons" and "A Taste Of Armageddon." The stories in which the alien nature of some characters matter is when story points depend upon the difference - the aforementioned Horta, the peculiar circumstances of "Balance Of Terror" or when the aliens possess some non-human abilities either as a result of superior physical evolution or being far more technologically advanced.

 

[Kegg]

"Just another" depends on where - or when - you're coming from. They were, in fact, one of the first.

Point. "Arena" was one of the last episodes I saw rather than one of the first, for whatever reason. Even still, a godlike alien is what it is.

It's completely unnecessary to litter a space series with aliens every week, particularly when the "aliens" are as lame as most of Star Trek's.

Perhaps; but it's simply a case of limiting story possibilites. In Trek's ludricously run it's done the Krell several times - every other long-dead alien civilization they ran into was a variation of that idea. It's also told a lot of other stories using aliens to varying degrees, very often as rather unsubtle human stand-ins, and honestly quite a lot of those are rather good.

While abandoned colonies would account for some stories (and we did see more than a few of those) it wouldn't give the same flexibility purely new tribes of humans had.

 

[larryman]

Yes... ST:TOS had too many sentient aliens-of-the-week.

I hope a Forbidden Planet series would not adopt the ST:TOS mantra: "...to discover new life, and new civilizations...". I would hope it would be more focused on repetitive visiting of several human-colonized alien worlds.

 

[larryman]

I have a better idea than 'Forbidden Planet as a TOS prequel'. I now would like Forbidden Planet to be an (80-year later) 'sequel' to the 1970 "Colossus: The Forbin Project" movie.

Colossus forces mankind into a united Earth - as seen in the "Colossus: The Forbin Project" movie.

Afterwords...

* Colossus' knowledge continues to self-increase.
* From the super knowledge of Colossus, we are given the technical knowledge to build hyperspace saucers - the Bellerophon being one of these. These ships are given for humans to explore and colonize the distant star systems.
* Eventually, the United Planets Federation is formed from the colonized star systems, and under the on-going direction of Colossus.

I like this concept for the following reasons:
* It provides deep background to the development of the United Planets Federation. All the way back to the year 1970.
* It differentiates the Forbidden Planet universe from the Star Trek universe. The ST federation does not answer to any computer. That would be anti-Roddenberry.
* It makes use of another great sci-fi concept: the Colossus ('World Control') super-computer.
* Dr. Charles Forbin becomes the FP equivalent of the ST Dr. Zefram Cochrane.
* Colossus redeems it's self, by 'giving mankind the stars'.
* The irony... humans build a machine that saves them from themselves; the Krell build a machine with which they destroy themselves.

 

[TOS Purist]

Ben Finney appears to be sobbing in "Court Martial" when Kirk confronts him, though I don't believe any actual tears were shown.

Matt Decker was openly sobbing in "The Doomsday Machine," as well.

I have a better idea than 'Forbidden Planet as a TOS prequel'. I now would like Forbidden Planet to be an (80-year later) 'sequel' to the 1970 "Colossus: The Forbin Project" movie.

That's a cool idea - why don't you make your own discussion thread for it? I'm not sure it fits in well here.

 

[Maurice]

Frankly, these tie-ins are all bad ideas.

 

[TOS Purist]

Eh, not everybody has to like it. I just geek out and enjoy combining my favorite sci-fi movie and TV show, especially since "Forbidden Planet" fits better with TOS's canon than "official Star Trek" shows like ENT...

 

[larryman]

Ben Finney appears to be sobbing in "Court Martial" when Kirk confronts him, though I don't believe any actual tears were shown.

Matt Decker was openly sobbing in "The Doomsday Machine," as well.

I have a better idea than 'Forbidden Planet as a TOS prequel'. I now would like Forbidden Planet to be an (80-year later) 'sequel' to the 1970 "Colossus: The Forbin Project" movie.

That's a cool idea - why don't you make your own discussion thread for it? I'm not sure it fits in well here.

Ok... I created a thread for the concept. It is here:
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3960675#post3960675

 

[Isis]

"Forbidden Planet" as TOS prequel? Upcoming Broadcast

TCM will be airing Forbidden Planet this Sunday (1/2/11) at 6 pm.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

^Thanks, Isis! Marked on my calendar!

 

[Commodore_Rook]

^I think some people are confusing 1950s/60s design sensibilities and production techniques with in-universe technology. Of course a present-day interpretation of the Star Trek universe is going to look different from a 1960s interpretation -- and Roddenberry himself would've been the first to change the look of Starfleet given better budgets and technology to do it with. By the same token, if any filmmakers today made an in-universe sequel to Forbidden Planet, it wouldn't give the technology and costumes the exact same look they had in the 1950s. Because these are not documentaries we're watching. They're works of fiction, and their creators are interpreting a fictional reality in a way that's shaped by their design preferences, their resources, the cinematic technology available to them, and so forth.

I have a horrible feeling, when they remake FP, it is going to look like that god awful Lost in Space remake! I really hope they don't remake it, but knowing Hollywood, they are going to do it! (They need to remake Logan's Run first! Of course you could say the new "Repo Men" was it)

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I enjoyed the Lost In Space remake, but then I don't think all that much of the original TV series - its charm is entirely kitschy, and I thought so at the age of eleven.

 

[Maurice]

Well, Syd Mead did some cool designs for the aborted version that was attempted in the 90s. The ship evoked a saucer without actually being one, and it still had a "tractor" type vehicle, etc. The sketches are in one his books.

 

[Warped9]

Well, Syd Mead did some cool designs for the aborted version that was attempted in the 90s. The ship evoked a saucer without actually being one, and it still had a "tractor" type vehicle, etc. The sketches are in one his books.

Yep. I have that book. Very cool looking stuff.