"Forbidden Planet" as TOS prequel?
- Thread starter TOS Purist
- Start date
Well there was, but it was cut out of the final movie. When the C-57-D was in orbit of Altair-4, the following dialog was to have occured:
Farman: How would that little Bellerophon party build up a civilization in twenty years!?
Adams: Ever ask yourself why they've never sent word back?
Farman: They could have cracked up on landing.
Adams: Or they could have made Man's first contact with an alien race.
Doc: You think aliens would necessarily be hostile?
Adams: They could be anything from arch-angels to man-eating spiders - or a combination of both.
Yeah, but that's a deleted scene. If we start making deleted scens canon, then we won't just have Spock as a Vulcan to worry about - Saavik will be half-Romulan.
When was Saavik not half-Romulan?
Yeah, but that's a deleted scene. If we start making deleted scens canon, then we won't just have Spock as a Vulcan to worry about - Saavik will be half-Romulan.
I don't know about Saavik. But in FP (for lack of any other info either way)... I take the cut scene as weight in favor of 'no aliens prior to Krell'. The scene was cut, only because the movie was too long. Not because anyone objected to it's content. Anyway, I think the scene was filmed before being cut out. So to play it safe, assume that film clip may someday be found, and re-inserted - thus, 'original' canon then restored.
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Except for the deleted scenes and novels, she was always just a Vulcan. Or at least there is notong in TWoK, TSFS, or TVH to indicate that Saavik is anything other than a Vulcan, at least.
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Ah, but larryman, if we're arguing authorial intent, nowhere is it clear that the creators of Forbidden Planet wanted a relationship with Star Trek, and Gene wanted one with Forbidden Planet only in the sense he 'borrowed' a lot of ideas and didn't want to have to pay royalties to them. Whether the beat's good or not (and it is, it's another layer of classic pulp to the narrative) cut it became.
Actually, no, it's not a different story. I cited the Saavik example as something that would become canon if we treated deleted scenes as canon.
All I need to cite is Saavik crying at Spock's funeral. Clearly not the action of a full Vulcan.
Why not? Just a young full-Vulcan who hasn't quite mastered complete control of her emotions quite yet. Remember how Spock acted back in The Cage?
Doesn't Sarek cry in TNG?
And plenty of 'em pointy-ears smile broadly in ST6. The whole range of expression is probably there, as is the whole range of restraint a Vulcan can or will use against the surfacing of the expressions.
What would "being half-Romulan" mean in practice? Saavik would have half her genes from a Vulcan from Vulcan, and half from a Vulcan from Romulus. Same difference. If she were brought up on Vulcan, she'd become Vulcan; if on Romulus, Romulan.
And Spock on the C-57D bridge ain't an alien. Elves aren't monsters from outer space.
Timo Saloniemi
What would "being half-Romulan" mean in practice? Saavik would have half her genes from a Vulcan from Vulcan, and half from a Vulcan from Romulus. Same difference. If she were brought up on Vulcan, she'd become Vulcan; if on Romulus, Romulan.
And Spock on the C-57D bridge ain't an alien. Elves aren't monsters from outer space.
Timo Saloniemi
I had that thought too. What they called the 'DC' stations, may serve dual-purpose. And we just did not see the 'transporter' function used. Perhaps the transporter process was computer controlled, like the DC process was. That would explain the absence of a transporter control console.
A transporter would be useful for crew members to transfer between ships close in space - without the slow and awkward spacesuit EVA process. But it seems Commander Adams prefers to land the C-57-D, rather than to beam down an away team. Perhaps the C-57-D's transporter has a very limited range of only meters (ok for ship to ship), and not kilometers (required for orbit to planet).
And I'll even add another function to those 'DC' stations... a crew life-stasis function. Same function as 'DC', except prolonged for days or years. This would allow the crew to avoid having to experience that entire year-long voyage the C-57-D required to reach Altair-4.
Does the movie establish that C-57D spent a year in space, getting to Altair? Or merely that the trip from Earth to Altair took a year?
I mean, the ship need not be designed for long transit, nor be of particularly low speed, if the trip from Earth to Altair proceeded through many waypoints - human colonies of various sorts. "More than a year out from Earth base on a special mission" might just as well mean one of those five-year mission things where there was a port call every second week. Especially if one places a comma there: "More than a year out from Earth base, on a special mission".
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, the ship need not be designed for long transit, nor be of particularly low speed, if the trip from Earth to Altair proceeded through many waypoints - human colonies of various sorts. "More than a year out from Earth base on a special mission" might just as well mean one of those five-year mission things where there was a port call every second week. Especially if one places a comma there: "More than a year out from Earth base, on a special mission".
Timo Saloniemi
^ Commander Adams tells Altaira: "It so happens that I'm in command of 18 competitively selected... super-perfect physical specimens... with an average age of 24.6... who have been locked up in hyperspace for 378 days!"
I interpret that to be a 378-day voyage, with no stops. But it does not rule out the possibility that the crew could have been in stasis for the majority of the hyperspace voyage. And perhaps they maintained a minimal 'live' crew presence through out the voyage, on a rotating basis use of a crew stasis function.
But I reference only the 1956 movie. I do not reference the later novelization of the movie.
I interpret that to be a 378-day voyage, with no stops. But it does not rule out the possibility that the crew could have been in stasis for the majority of the hyperspace voyage. And perhaps they maintained a minimal 'live' crew presence through out the voyage, on a rotating basis use of a crew stasis function.
But I reference only the 1956 movie. I do not reference the later novelization of the movie.
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378 days awake would not jibe well with the idea that Adams only informs his crew of their mission once the ship reaches Altairan orbit. A shorter mission, or one where transit was in suspended animation, would fit that bit better...
I mean, yes, Adams could only be reminding the crew. But if the 378 preceding days had been dedicated to getting to Altair IV, I can't believe there would be a single soul on board who wouldn't be intimately familiar with the aims of the mission, not to mention sick and tired of the whole thing.
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, yes, Adams could only be reminding the crew. But if the 378 preceding days had been dedicated to getting to Altair IV, I can't believe there would be a single soul on board who wouldn't be intimately familiar with the aims of the mission, not to mention sick and tired of the whole thing.
Timo Saloniemi
I'd prefer if the DC were adapted into transporters only after the warp drive superseded the hyperdrive--a mother of necessity/waste not, want not kinda thing.
(I'm being thought experimenty here--I'm solidly in the separate universes camp.)
So does that mean her other half is Romulan? No. Spock cried in TMP, and he's half human. So by your logic, she could be human also.
That's the thing though...most people do not consider deleted scenes to be canon, not even the directors who had the scenes cut in the first place.
Or a human?
That is, a human male?
Not before TNG, I guess. In TOS, only the women were allowed to weep. Even our closest call, "City on the Edge of Forever", had Kirk at best lifting his hand to his eye as if to wipe a tear, then never complete the move. No onion was used to produce an actual moisture effect...
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x28hd/thecityontheedgeofforeverhd903.jpg
Timo Saloniemi
That is, a human male?
Not before TNG, I guess. In TOS, only the women were allowed to weep. Even our closest call, "City on the Edge of Forever", had Kirk at best lifting his hand to his eye as if to wipe a tear, then never complete the move. No onion was used to produce an actual moisture effect...
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x28hd/thecityontheedgeofforeverhd903.jpg
Timo Saloniemi
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