"For my son; for all our sons"
- Thread starter indolover
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That's an interesting question. The first time we hear it, it seems to simply be a piece of one-off rhetoric from Dukat, because the speech he's making uses his son's upcoming birthday to make a point. "For my son, for all our sons" references the promise he's just made to clear all Maquis and Klingons from Cardassian space by that birthday. In doing so, of course, he also paints himself as the protective "father" to all Cardassians, the idea of the great Cardassian family, himself as patriarch.
Then Damar uses the same phrase in one of his first speeches, which raises two possibilities:
1) He was deliberately recalling Dukat's speech to give a sense of continuity - Dukat's gone, citizens, but I'm in his place and it's going to be much the same, the war continues, his legacy continues
2) It's an established rhetorical phrase that Dukat was simply putting a twist on and Cardassians use it often.
I imagine 1) is more likely, but I've always had a soft spot for 2) because, in my mind, it heightens the tragedy of Cardassian culture. I imagine the phrase originating with Cardassian soldiers who fought wars out of a sense of sad necessity - "we fight so our sons won't have to", but which was corrupted into a more Klingon-esque battlecry that celebrated rather than justified.
Then Damar uses the same phrase in one of his first speeches, which raises two possibilities:
1) He was deliberately recalling Dukat's speech to give a sense of continuity - Dukat's gone, citizens, but I'm in his place and it's going to be much the same, the war continues, his legacy continues
2) It's an established rhetorical phrase that Dukat was simply putting a twist on and Cardassians use it often.
I imagine 1) is more likely, but I've always had a soft spot for 2) because, in my mind, it heightens the tragedy of Cardassian culture. I imagine the phrase originating with Cardassian soldiers who fought wars out of a sense of sad necessity - "we fight so our sons won't have to", but which was corrupted into a more Klingon-esque battlecry that celebrated rather than justified.
Or at least pretended to justify, so that they could feel they were "above" the Klingons somehow.
Indeed.
Like I say, I think Damar was probably just echoing Dukat, but I always thought that the phrase would in fact work as an established, rather old military rallying cry - and one that might capture perfectly how modern Cardassia lost its way. The words are the same, but the meaning has been lost.
If it is a common phrase, I would think it's probably always been specifically miltary (hence my proposed explanation above), because while Cardassians often seem male-oriented as a society, I never saw any evidence that they valued daughters less. So unless it's a phrase associated with a male-dominated aspect of Cardassian life (like soldiering), the gender-specific and exclusive wording seems a little uncomfortable.
In terms of option 1) - it being specifically Dukat's rhetoric - I did like the suggestion - well, the hint really - in The Never-Ending Sacrifice, that Dukat deliberately left out daughters in order to bury the scandal of Ziyal...no need to let that stain his new image as leader...
It would have been nice if Dukat did actually get back together with his legitimate children, instead of focusing so much on Ziyal (whom he didn't even raise or anything, compared to them!).
Perhaps having them all killed by the Klingons would've set up the Ziyal thing better: She really IS all he has left now and it's understandable why he goes nuts after Sacrifice of Angels since it'd be the culmination of all his loss and trauma.
Perhaps having them all killed by the Klingons would've set up the Ziyal thing better: She really IS all he has left now and it's understandable why he goes nuts after Sacrifice of Angels since it'd be the culmination of all his loss and trauma.
Considering the fact that he had spent decades mostly on Bajor, while his family was on Cardassia, I'd say that he probably participated in raising Ziyal more than he did in raising them.
Nah...I don't think they did. I think it proved what a sociopath he really was. His legitimate kids were trophies--status symbols. I don't think he ever loved them--only used them for political or rhetorical gain. As for Ziyal...what she provided him was doglike love. Worship.
I don't think we ever saw that, but I would imagine she went to the Bajoran equivalent of Child Protective Services. But given the way Rugal's adoption happened (adopted to a parent who raised the child to be full of self-hatred to the point of biting someone), I'd be worried for the poor girl. 
Possibly, although on several occasions we have seen that the use of children and family is a very common theme in Cardassian rhetoric; from the unknown Gul whom urged the peoples of the Union to 'consider the children' and the fact that children are brought into a public trial. (for the good of the state naturally).
The beauty of that succulent art form that is the Cardassian Monologue is the excellent usage of repetition to concentrate the already disciplined mind of the audience upon the importance of what the monologuer is addressing.Thus, as Deranged Nasat rightly points out, Corat Damar deliberately echoes his predecessor and his motifs in his inaugural speech.
I belive that such things are common amongst most if not all Cardassian public speech along with the notion of the inviolate Union. ("There are no minor planets in the Cardassian Union" and "there will be no Klingon left alive inside our borders" for example).
Basically the Cardassians are wonderfully, epically repetitive and therefore quite often predicable.
which is just what they want you to think...
That actually makes a lot of sense. When Damar repeated it, he was quoting a phrase that had become very common in a short time. And of course it resonated so well with the people because of Cardassia's emphasis on family.
Maybe it had to due with the large number of male Cardassians in the military. They were the ones doin' the fightin' that Dukat was promisin', so it was for the men. He was tryin' to get 'em pumped up.
This makes sense to me, considerin' that Dukat's wife left with their children, and all Dukat had left was his half Bajoran daughter.
That Damar used it showed two things...that he was tryin' to keep the men in the military motivated and the Dominion's complete lack of understandin' if they were the ones writin' his speeches. If Dukat used the phrase, the Dominion made Damar use it, too.
Can't remember if Damar used it after he became a rebel, but ya notice it was all men under his command for that, too...so, if he did, he was still motivatin' the men of the Cardassian Union, especially since his family was killed by the Dominion after he betrayed 'em.
This makes sense to me, considerin' that Dukat's wife left with their children, and all Dukat had left was his half Bajoran daughter.
That Damar used it showed two things...that he was tryin' to keep the men in the military motivated and the Dominion's complete lack of understandin' if they were the ones writin' his speeches. If Dukat used the phrase, the Dominion made Damar use it, too.
Can't remember if Damar used it after he became a rebel, but ya notice it was all men under his command for that, too...so, if he did, he was still motivatin' the men of the Cardassian Union, especially since his family was killed by the Dominion after he betrayed 'em.
That quote always reminds me strongly of Arthur Miller's "All my sons" which I haven't read in its entirety since college, however, the play does center around how a man's (or family's) idealism can have unforseen, often negative consequences. Interestingly, the family is "All my sons" are mainly comprised of WWII veterans--military men.
And, further, it does seem like a line that military man might say...along the lines of "For King and Country." etc.
So, was it a witticism that Dukat invented? I'm not sure...but did it make a great sound byte for Dumar? I think it did.
Because Sisko had attempted to make a connection with Dukat through their sons, which was rejected, I think it had a dovetail effect in the dialogue.
And, further, it does seem like a line that military man might say...along the lines of "For King and Country." etc.
So, was it a witticism that Dukat invented? I'm not sure...but did it make a great sound byte for Dumar? I think it did.
Because Sisko had attempted to make a connection with Dukat through their sons, which was rejected, I think it had a dovetail effect in the dialogue.
Which is why you have to love them. They're so intense.
And I like to think that all important speeches end with the "for my son...for all our sons" bit, because it's awesome.
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