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Fontana's INCIDENT

. . . To me, those scenes played like vintage Roddenberry. Based on some of his other screenwriting - not to mention several cringe-inducing memos reproduced in “The Making of Star Trek” book - I frequently got the impression that his sexual maturity never much progressed past age sixteen. :lol:
Well, of course. He was a Hollywood producer, after all!
 
It always irked me that the Romulan commander was basically seduced by Spock. No way would she had made in as a starship commander in the Romulan Empire had she been so fucking STUPID, she would have been overthown, ousted, whatever long since.

Things like that happen quite often in real life. How many men and women (both people in power and ordinary people) have done stupid things because they were attracted to someone of the opposite sex?

Remember, the KGP had female agents whose purpose was to seduce men in power or who had access to secrets that the Soviet government wanted. Many usually intelligent people fell for those "honey traps."

So, I'm not sure why that irks you.
 
I own Fontana's first draft. There was no prior relationship between the two characters. In fact, despite her protestations, her first draft has Spock acting as much out of character as the final.

Follow the link below to read my synopsis of it and the differences between it and the final, aired, episode.

Sir Rhosis
Link below? If you mean your singature, some of us don't have the site set to display them.
 
I've always thought it to be an overrated episode. Good by season 3 standards. But it wasn't season 3, it wouldn't get a second mention in Star Trek lore.
 
I own Fontana's first draft. There was no prior relationship between the two characters. In fact, despite her protestations, her first draft has Spock acting as much out of character as the final.

Follow the link below to read my synopsis of it and the differences between it and the final, aired, episode.

Sir Rhosis
Link below? If you mean your singature, some of us don't have the site set to display them.

:lol: Yes, I can't hear your singature either. What key is it in? Perhaps some diaphramatic breathing would help... :devil:

Oh, alright then - I'll get me coat... :(
 
I own Fontana's first draft. There was no prior relationship between the two characters. In fact, despite her protestations, her first draft has Spock acting as much out of character as the final.

Follow the link below to read my synopsis of it and the differences between it and the final, aired, episode.

Sir Rhosis
Link below? If you mean your singature, some of us don't have the site set to display them.

:lol: Yes, I can't hear your singature either. What key is it in? Perhaps some diaphramatic breathing would help... :devil:
That was a noteworthy comment.
 
Remember, the KGP had female agents whose purpose was to seduce men in power or who had access to secrets that the Soviet government wanted. Many usually intelligent people fell for those "honey traps."
I'm sure you mean KGB, dahlink.

natasha3.jpg
 
How about this for a retcon. Maybe Spock had already began initial contacts toward what would become his life's work of re-unification, hence his familiarity with some romulans and vise-versa?
 
It always irked me that the Romulan commander was basically seduced by Spock. No way would she had made in as a starship commander in the Romulan Empire had she been so fucking STUPID, she would have been overthown, ousted, whatever long since.

Yeah, it's why The Balance of Terror remains my favorite TOS episode, but The Enterprise Incident falls very far down on my list.
 
...and yet the show is by far the most famous of all the Treks...
What? The episode in question is hardly the most famous.

True, but it wouldn't be wrong to say that of the third season offerings, it is near the top.

Must I point out the sexist tone of some of Trek's more popular episodes to make my point...I dont think so. Star Trek had issues with sexism, and yet, is very well liked, as are many shows from that time.

Rob

The most well known episodes are probably the likes of City on the Edge of Forever, Amok Time, The Naked Time, The Doomsday Machine and The Trouble with Tribbles - episodes that had some highly dramatic or unusual element (Spock goes crazy on Vulcan, the whole crew goes crazy, Kirk visits the Great Depression, those funny little cooing fuzzballs, that freaky ice cream cone that eats planets). Even non-fans will remember things like that.

I run into non-fans who talk about "the big moving mound of pizza" episode (aka the Horta). They may not remember anything else, but the weirdness of the pizza-monster really sticks in their minds.

Sexism being an element that creates memorable episodes makes zero sense. More likely, it's one of those comically outdated elements that are held up for mockery (the silly miniskirts and go-go boots) on par with Shatner's acting and ripped shirts. I guess it's memorable in that sense, but not in a good way.
 
If Spock had known the Romulan commander, then shouldn't he have known in "Balance of Terror" what Romulans look like? Unless he met her sometime after the episode. But when would he have had time?
 
At the point she says "Spock, I didn't expect to see you" they cut to Kirk and play some 'suspicious' music. As if Kirk took it to meant that she and Spock had met before...Later on, as we all know, towards the end, Spock/Romulan commander agree to keep their little secret..

She just meant she was surprised to see a Vulcan, any Vulcan, serving aboard a Federation ship.
 
At the point she says "Spock, I didn't expect to see you" they cut to Kirk and play some 'suspicious' music. As if Kirk took it to meant that she and Spock had met before...Later on, as we all know, towards the end, Spock/Romulan commander agree to keep their little secret..

She just meant she was surprised to see a Vulcan, any Vulcan, serving aboard a Federation ship.
Romulan Intel must really suck.
 
^ T'Bonz, have you never seen that deleted scene that takes place just after the Romulan Commander excuses herself from Spock to go change into her civvies? She gets on the intercom with her sub-commander and says, "The schnook's falling for it hook, line and sinker! We're gonna be able to take the Enterprise without firing a shot!" ;)

Seriously, though, she was portrayed rather badly in the episode. To me, those scenes played like vintage Roddenberry. Based on some of his other screenwriting - not to mention several cringe-inducing memos reproduced in "The Making of Star Trek" book - I frequently got the impression that his sexual maturity never much progressed past age sixteen. :lol:

..and yet the show is by far the most famous of all the Treks. You see, there is a little dirty secret; its 'sexist' charm is part of the reason it endures.

Rob

I actually take exception to the idea that Star Trek was the most sexist of the Trek series. As a matter of fact I'd have to say that it was IMO the least sexist.

Yes, Kirk got lucky every now and then. Yes, a lot of times the female characters would fall in love with Alpha Male types and betray their vows to Starfleet. Yes, the women wore revealing outfits but... BUT look at what came later.

1. TNG had a kind of dunderheaded feminist slant to it that in many ways was reverse sexist. Each sexual experience for the females was almost always equated with rape.

Tasha Yar: As a child she was hunted by rape gangs. She was captured by a threatening black man who wanted to force her into marriage. The one time she had sex she was intoxicated.

Crusher: Not much romance for her but the romances I can recall were pretty fucked up. Odan was a man who was keeping secrets from her and who wanted to have lesbian sex with her once he switched bodies. Not rape but still a duplicitous relationship. Also there was that ghost dude she was fucking. Not really rape but he was using and manipulating her.

Troi: Oy! How many times was this woman raped? She was raped by a ball of light and impregnated. She was mind raped once on the series and then again in the movies. I think she got possessed and turned into a slutbag ho who had to fuck to stay young or something... Besides her sex life she was constantly forced to show off her tits despite the fact that every other woman on the E-D wore uniforms like professional Starfleet officers do.

2. DS9 didn't have the rape thing going on and was a lot less sexist than most Trek but don't tell me Leeta was on the station because of her blinding intellect because I assure you there was no intellect to blind one with.

3. Voyager. Seven of Nine. The implants on her chest were larger than the implants on her face. She was put on the show to pander to the male demographic. If the producers were really serious about creating an interesting character they either would have cast a male or they would have kept her wearing full Borg makeup for her time on the show. They just wanted a Baywatch babe to pull in ratings.

4. Enterprise - Do I really need to point out how sexist this show was? More skin by far than any incarnation of Trek. Those decon scenes were practically soft core. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Now I know the above examples were hardly exhaustive but I think I've proven the point that just because Star Trek was a product of the 60s that doesn't mean the show was written by gutter dwelling cavemen. If anything the more modern and enlightened the writers and producers were the more blatant they got in their Trekkian jerkoff fantasies.

Please note I have no problem with all the hot female ass Star Trek has given us over the years I just don't think it's fair that it's a "fact' that classic Trek was so goddamn sexist when it's actually pretty tame and respectable compared to 80s-00s Trek.
 
This was a bone of contention with DC Fontana. The episode had been re written and lore has it that she went to Nimoy and apologized for the whole Romulan Commander/Spock seduction scene.

Agreed, seems out of character. But here is what i think happened, but got edited..

Spock and the Romulan Character did know each other..how? don't know. Kirk sees the attraction she still has for Spock..has Spock play on it and so forth...

Would have been great if they had sex, and we later found out Savik was smuggled out of the Romulan Territory and raised on vulcan...and was spock's daughter.

Yes, TREK 3 would have had to be rewritten to not include the pon far stuff...

Rob
David Marcus: taking one for the team since 2255. :(
 
It always irked me that the Romulan commander was basically seduced by Spock. No way would she had made in as a starship commander in the Romulan Empire had she been so fucking STUPID, she would have been overthown, ousted, whatever long since.

I think she was the one seducing Spock. It was ambition rather than love that blinded her. Imagine if she had succeeded in getting Spock to surrender and defect - and even Spock admitted that he had actually been tempted to do so. She would have been able to bring to the Romulans an extremely valuable, clever, knowledgeable defector, Federation starship technology, a terrorizing win for the Romulans, and an alluring boy toy to enjoy for a while to boot. It would have given her power, honor, fame, and glory beyond all her dreams. She simply underestimated him because her ambition made her reckless enough to believe she could pull it off.

I think she almost succeeded, but Spock was smart enough to know that there really was no choice for him in the matter - "you would not respect any other".

I'll wager that Spock would be the worst person for the Federation to have defect - yes, even worse than Kirk's defection. A thread entitled "Who represents the worst security breech to the Federation if they defected" would probably have only a few names on it.
 
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The characters of TOS were sexual beings. Sometimes it was a tool. Sometimes it was a diversion. Sometimes just plain fun. They didn't compartmentalize the aspects of their lives the way we're expected to nowadays.
 
The characters of TOS were sexual beings. Sometimes it was a tool. Sometimes it was a diversion. Sometimes just plain fun. They didn't compartmentalize the aspects of their lives the way we're expected to nowadays.

Oh, I totally agree with this. But mainly I respond to your posts because your avatar makes me.

Rob
 
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