Thank you, Mytran. 
If I understand correctly, this vessel is the basis of Liberty II privateers.
If I understand correctly, this vessel is the basis of Liberty II privateers.
Fleet construction
- Thread starter Unicron
- Start date
I am with you on the big fleet idea. Unless there is some limiting factor we don't know about (anti matter production, dilithium crystal availability, etc.) I assume a civilization 50 - 150 member world's should have ample personnel to man 100,000s of ships.
Starfleet seems to be a combined sea, air, land, space armed force that has absorbed the functions of NASA and NOAA in addition to the military forces.
I think it's a more federal union than the UN or even the EU. Maybe somewhere between that and the US. There may still be planetary armed and police forces, in addition to scientific and academic institutions that might have their own ships.
Even within Starfleet there would likely be variations in design and conditions that are species specific or tailored to a narrow range of species.
For instance, Andorians might prefer temperature and other atmospheric settings that would be uncomfortable for certain other species. Much colder for instance than humans would prefer. Vulcans might prefer it too hot for Andorians or humans.
Still other species may require atmospheric pressures and gravity that are too high for many species. There may even be Federation members from planets around red dwarfs who evolved to see in the infrared spectrum, or species with low temperature or non carbon based biochemistries. Ammonia, silicon, sulfur, etc.
Even with compatible living conditions, some species may average heights greater than wookies and some the size of Yoda. The ergonomics of panels, workstations, control interfaces, chairs, door heights, etc may need some customization.
I can see technology transfers such as occur in our own world. Ships and aircraft convertible to other purposes after some life extending refit and conversion.
Actually, I think the Liberty II ships might be armed for self defense, but seem too big, fat, awkward, and cumbersome for a privateer. 
This class might serve in a particular niche-commerce outside of Federation space. Which might justify a ship having enough firepower to fend off other craft.
Federation space itself may be sufficiently well policed for unarmed vessels,
This class might serve in a particular niche-commerce outside of Federation space. Which might justify a ship having enough firepower to fend off other craft.
Federation space itself may be sufficiently well policed for unarmed vessels,
Re: Liberty II post war
It occurred to me that during the war the Federation would have been building as many Liberty ships as feasible, to make up for losses of commercial vessels.
Post war, Star Fleet would be depleted. How to ensure safety of civillan vessels? Take those modular Liberty ships and arm them!
It occurred to me that during the war the Federation would have been building as many Liberty ships as feasible, to make up for losses of commercial vessels.
Post war, Star Fleet would be depleted. How to ensure safety of civillan vessels? Take those modular Liberty ships and arm them!
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Re: Post War Fleet construction
I have seen some beautiful designs posted for shiny new exploration cruisers, bleeding edge tech, for construction just after the Dominion War.
Just the thing to do just after much of your fleet was destroyed.
I would try to rebuild the fleet by replacing the work horses that were destroyed. I'm thinking of a multi-role/utility vehicle.
The question is-which ship class to use? Which design would you put into production?
I have seen some beautiful designs posted for shiny new exploration cruisers, bleeding edge tech, for construction just after the Dominion War.
Just the thing to do just after much of your fleet was destroyed.
I would try to rebuild the fleet by replacing the work horses that were destroyed. I'm thinking of a multi-role/utility vehicle.
The question is-which ship class to use? Which design would you put into production?
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I would say that the war has been over for a long time now. Over 16 years. Given the immensity of the Federation population, and advanced industrial 3d printing, it should not be too difficult to build and crew as many ships as they need.
If I were the 2390s Federation, I'd be using 7 of 9, the Voyager database and other encounters with the Borg to begin building a Federation transwarp hub system, transwarp starships, etc.
If I were the 2390s Federation, I'd be using 7 of 9, the Voyager database and other encounters with the Borg to begin building a Federation transwarp hub system, transwarp starships, etc.
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Discussion of border patrol
www.pbm.com/~lindahl/pbm_list/descriptions/1304023404.3662.htm
Having trouble getting the link to work.
To summarize, in aftermath of Borg/Dominion War crisis, Star Fleet out sources some of its functions to private military companies/privateers. These private organizations provide border patrol and internal policing for the Federation.
www.pbm.com/~lindahl/pbm_list/descriptions/1304023404.3662.htm
Having trouble getting the link to work.
To summarize, in aftermath of Borg/Dominion War crisis, Star Fleet out sources some of its functions to private military companies/privateers. These private organizations provide border patrol and internal policing for the Federation.
Re: Fleet construction-post war
I'm thinking that in the immediate post war period the fleet would be depleted in larger vessels in general.
Much of the fleet would consist of older ships that were taken out of mothballs. In fact, I can imagine the use of ships that were relatively old during the TOS era. Ships that would have been mothballed during the TMP period. Now revived, they would be used in support roles.
I'm thinking that in the immediate post war period the fleet would be depleted in larger vessels in general.
Much of the fleet would consist of older ships that were taken out of mothballs. In fact, I can imagine the use of ships that were relatively old during the TOS era. Ships that would have been mothballed during the TMP period. Now revived, they would be used in support roles.
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I doubt that old ships would be taken out of mothballs.
The older ships that were in service (such as the Miranda's and Excelsiors) but received upgrades would have remained in service until SF decided to retire them, but emphasis would have been made in constructing modern/newest ships such as the Prometheus, Galaxy, Intrepid, Sovereign, Akira, Steamrunner, Nova and Sabre classes.
Starfleet has ample resources even post war to defend itself. Additional militarization is unlikely.
They would probably shore up their defences by having more ships in 'reserve' or 'stand-by' modes, and continuously update planetary based defensive systems (such as planetary shields, construction facilities, automated weapons platforms, starbases, etc), overall improving on internal security and border patrols, but the rest would likely be retrofitted for exploratory assignments.
Heck, even exploration can be done by those 'guarding fleets' inside Federation space itself as one would imagine there's plenty to explore and discover in your own backyard with refined methods, etc.
So 'boredom' wouldn't really be an issue here, especially if those internal defence ships continuously swap places that will take them all over Federation space.
The older ships that were in service (such as the Miranda's and Excelsiors) but received upgrades would have remained in service until SF decided to retire them, but emphasis would have been made in constructing modern/newest ships such as the Prometheus, Galaxy, Intrepid, Sovereign, Akira, Steamrunner, Nova and Sabre classes.
Starfleet has ample resources even post war to defend itself. Additional militarization is unlikely.
They would probably shore up their defences by having more ships in 'reserve' or 'stand-by' modes, and continuously update planetary based defensive systems (such as planetary shields, construction facilities, automated weapons platforms, starbases, etc), overall improving on internal security and border patrols, but the rest would likely be retrofitted for exploratory assignments.
Heck, even exploration can be done by those 'guarding fleets' inside Federation space itself as one would imagine there's plenty to explore and discover in your own backyard with refined methods, etc.
So 'boredom' wouldn't really be an issue here, especially if those internal defence ships continuously swap places that will take them all over Federation space.
Re: Fleet construction-post war
Perhaps the ships that become work horses sort of fall into the role, unplanned. Mirandas. Constellations. Excelsiors.
Maybe the Ju'days.
In Longevity, I have used aircraft as comparisons. I compared the Excelsiors to B-52s, and Mirandas to DC-3s.
But many of those 23rd century ships were destroyed by the end of the Dominion War. There would be a surviving remnant, and these old ships might be useful in some small capacity. But they would now be too few and too old to serve as the backbone of the fleet.
Perhaps the ships that become work horses sort of fall into the role, unplanned. Mirandas. Constellations. Excelsiors.
Maybe the Ju'days.
In Longevity, I have used aircraft as comparisons. I compared the Excelsiors to B-52s, and Mirandas to DC-3s.
But many of those 23rd century ships were destroyed by the end of the Dominion War. There would be a surviving remnant, and these old ships might be useful in some small capacity. But they would now be too few and too old to serve as the backbone of the fleet.
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I have to say I think the Dakota class is the right direction for rebuilding the fleet. A multi-role/utility vehicle. Probably built using proven, rather than bleeding edge, technology. Perhaps using off the shelf components.
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Re-posting.
www.phoenixium.com/galleryvehicles/saber/saber.htm
BTW, awhile back I came across a diagram for an Iowa class starship. It appeared to have been a Saber with a truncated trapezoid ("saucer"). Probably a stripped down, cut rate, derivative design.
www.phoenixium.com/galleryvehicles/saber/saber.htm
BTW, awhile back I came across a diagram for an Iowa class starship. It appeared to have been a Saber with a truncated trapezoid ("saucer"). Probably a stripped down, cut rate, derivative design.
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Something that was posted in another thread got me thinking about another possibility. How should automated systems be treated? Is it more economical to design more ships that would need fewer crew and less operating resources?
Battletech is the only universe I can think of off the top of my head that has made extensive allowances for the use of drone systems, albeit not as a common scenario. The Star League's Space Defense System was probably the most advanced system ever designed, and it could protect an entire star system with only a handful of human controllers. The drones had an advanced degree of autonomous programming as well as a sort of virtual database of the SLDF's best military minds, which made them highly dangerous after control of the SDS was usurped during the Amaris Coup.
The SDS did have some flaws that were never resolved: drones couldn't make independent FTL jumps without their systems getting screwed up, and the coup proved that if the system was taken over by an enemy party - a challenging but not impossible task - then the SDS would be a major threat to any group attempting to rescue Terra. The SLDF was able to take advantage of the drones' vulnerability to electromagnetic interference to ultimately help defeat Amaris, but it was still a very nasty slugfest that cost a lot of lives and ships.
Battletech is the only universe I can think of off the top of my head that has made extensive allowances for the use of drone systems, albeit not as a common scenario. The Star League's Space Defense System was probably the most advanced system ever designed, and it could protect an entire star system with only a handful of human controllers. The drones had an advanced degree of autonomous programming as well as a sort of virtual database of the SLDF's best military minds, which made them highly dangerous after control of the SDS was usurped during the Amaris Coup.
The SDS did have some flaws that were never resolved: drones couldn't make independent FTL jumps without their systems getting screwed up, and the coup proved that if the system was taken over by an enemy party - a challenging but not impossible task - then the SDS would be a major threat to any group attempting to rescue Terra. The SLDF was able to take advantage of the drones' vulnerability to electromagnetic interference to ultimately help defeat Amaris, but it was still a very nasty slugfest that cost a lot of lives and ships.
Re:warship classifications
I was considering comments to another thread-that the big exploration cruisers were a fruitful compromise. They had something to do during peace time-explore-but were also half decent substitutes for dedicated warships. And yes, exploration cruisers would be resource intensive, but so are large warships.
The Sovereign class I would compare to Kirk's Constitution class Enterprise.
BTW, I have seen the Intrepids designated as "Light Explorers". The idea would be that these ships would be more afordable than the Galaxies, while performing many of the same functions.
I was considering comments to another thread-that the big exploration cruisers were a fruitful compromise. They had something to do during peace time-explore-but were also half decent substitutes for dedicated warships. And yes, exploration cruisers would be resource intensive, but so are large warships.
The Sovereign class I would compare to Kirk's Constitution class Enterprise.
BTW, I have seen the Intrepids designated as "Light Explorers". The idea would be that these ships would be more afordable than the Galaxies, while performing many of the same functions.
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