FlashForward: "Better Angels" 4/1/10 - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Aragorn
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Awesome ending. Can't wait until next week. Fringe time now...
I still think it's quite possible that the event in Somalia wasn't the first one.
I still think it's quite possible that the event in Somalia wasn't the first one.
Well they were wearing the red pandaI knew he'd kill the security guard who talkeda red shirt with no red shirt!
Excellent
I had some problems with the flip flopping personalities of the Somalian warlord, but other than that it was a pretty good episode. Charlie's flash forward was interesting, but even more interesting was the whole tower portion of the episode. The ending was especially good.
I had some problems with the flip flopping personalities of the Somalian warlord, but other than that it was a pretty good episode. Charlie's flash forward was interesting, but even more interesting was the whole tower portion of the episode. The ending was especially good.
FlashForward had a 22% drop in viewership from the last episode and series low ratings... don't get too attached.
It was the great Paul Dirac whose father insisted on his son speaking French at home. Although Dirac's father was French, they were not in France.
Joseph Fiennes and Sonya Walger nailed their scenes. Very compelling execution of the Benford storyline. This shows why Fiennes is the star, and deserves to be.
The Janice/Demetri interaction was beautifully handled. The way her flashforward opened her up to an unsuspected but deeply held wish while Demetri's have left him fearful was striking contrast. The emergence of his what-the-hell response to his possible demise was erratic in a believable way. His offer was both funny and touching.
But I had to down grade for the rest of the Somalia story line. They aren't going to be able to rationalize the science in this, which means the crime plot won't make sense either. The hands on Somali butcher was crude sensationalism. The way he interpreted the flashforward, then wobbled when Janice brought in Mosaic nearly made him a character study in how personality biases judgment. But the sudden need to slaughter Campos was really just put in there so the good guys could gun down an evil foreigner.
One remark, which sounded very much like writer editorializing, was about how "we" send hundreds of millions of dollars in aid and it gets stolen by people like him. As for Africa generally, more money goes out of Africa to Western banks than is given or even invested in Africa. Whining about corruption in African governments when the most corrupt were and are commonly favored precisely for their corruption is hypocritical.
As for Somalia in particular, US support for the Siad Barre dictatorship and the war against Ethiopia (under the Marxist, albeit unorthodox, Dergue) played a huge part in the original collapse of the Somali state! The US invasion, supposedly a rescue operation, turned out to be merely an intervention against Mohammed Aidid. Off hand I can't remember a foreign intervention that didn't make things worse. More recently stabilization of Somalia around the Union of Islamic Courts was shattered by the US backed invasion of Somalia by today's Ethiopian government, which is is no way leftist. All this ignorant tripe is too mean spirited to be anything but bad taste.
Above average.
Joseph Fiennes and Sonya Walger nailed their scenes. Very compelling execution of the Benford storyline. This shows why Fiennes is the star, and deserves to be.
The Janice/Demetri interaction was beautifully handled. The way her flashforward opened her up to an unsuspected but deeply held wish while Demetri's have left him fearful was striking contrast. The emergence of his what-the-hell response to his possible demise was erratic in a believable way. His offer was both funny and touching.
But I had to down grade for the rest of the Somalia story line. They aren't going to be able to rationalize the science in this, which means the crime plot won't make sense either. The hands on Somali butcher was crude sensationalism. The way he interpreted the flashforward, then wobbled when Janice brought in Mosaic nearly made him a character study in how personality biases judgment. But the sudden need to slaughter Campos was really just put in there so the good guys could gun down an evil foreigner.
One remark, which sounded very much like writer editorializing, was about how "we" send hundreds of millions of dollars in aid and it gets stolen by people like him. As for Africa generally, more money goes out of Africa to Western banks than is given or even invested in Africa. Whining about corruption in African governments when the most corrupt were and are commonly favored precisely for their corruption is hypocritical.
As for Somalia in particular, US support for the Siad Barre dictatorship and the war against Ethiopia (under the Marxist, albeit unorthodox, Dergue) played a huge part in the original collapse of the Somali state! The US invasion, supposedly a rescue operation, turned out to be merely an intervention against Mohammed Aidid. Off hand I can't remember a foreign intervention that didn't make things worse. More recently stabilization of Somalia around the Union of Islamic Courts was shattered by the US backed invasion of Somalia by today's Ethiopian government, which is is no way leftist. All this ignorant tripe is too mean spirited to be anything but bad taste.
Above average.
Above average--I'm kinda surprised the show has sorta improved over the last two weeks. It certainly helps that it has shifted gears and is focusing more on the mystery and plot and less on the lives of the characters since I found that extremely uninteresting.
The African subplot wasn't great but passable enough and the rest of the hour was actually decent. I'm not sure I buy Cho's character offering to knock up Janis but who's to say what someone might do thinking he might be dead soon.
Mark clearly has an addictive/compulsive personality willing to jeopardize everything because of some obligation to stop a second Black Out rather than moving.
Right now I'll stay with it until the end of the season but I can't say I'll be disappointed if and when it is canned--and that might be a good thing given the track record of some shows--one season might be best.
The African subplot wasn't great but passable enough and the rest of the hour was actually decent. I'm not sure I buy Cho's character offering to knock up Janis but who's to say what someone might do thinking he might be dead soon.
Mark clearly has an addictive/compulsive personality willing to jeopardize everything because of some obligation to stop a second Black Out rather than moving.
Right now I'll stay with it until the end of the season but I can't say I'll be disappointed if and when it is canned--and that might be a good thing given the track record of some shows--one season might be best.
Didn't this show get new showrunners, like V?
Well, I gave V an overly-generous Above Average this week so it's only fair I kick that score over FlashForward's way. It was a very nice change of pace to get out of LA and to anywhere different, even if it's just the Mojave Desert dressed up as Somalia.
The warlord guy was great to see, a character who doesn't scream Standard TV Type the way the rest of the cast does (other than Janis, who is pretty much my favorite character now and when this show gets cancelled at the end of this season, I hope Christine Woods gets another gig soon.)
But the flashforward idea is making less and less sense as something to build a story around. At this point, the visions seem to be merely "suggestions" about a possible future that is not too difficult to avoid by showing a little common sense.
Mark and Olivia don't have to move to Denver. Mark just needs to not go into work that day. How hard is that? How about if he asks the FBI if he can work out of another office in the LA area? He doesn't need to set foot in that building until after D-Day and can still do his job. Ever hear of e-mail?
And I don't buy the idea that someone as violent as the Somali warlord could turn around and become a peacenik so quickly. It might have been a good storyline to see that happen - assuming the writers could pull it off plausibly, which I'm not so sure about - but since he's DEAD, there goes that idea. So what was the point of the character anyway? "Here's an implausible plotline, hey, now we don't have to even attempt to pull it off!"
Feh, just cancel this mess already.
The problem with that is, he just saw a guy with a vision who got killed. So why shouldn't a guy like him, with no vision, survive? It makes absolutely no sense that anyone is treating the flashfowards as anything more significant than suggestions about what the future could potentially bring, with a probability that is completely unknowable. They could have a .000001% chance of actually coming true, or a 99.999999% chance. Or a zero percent chance for that matter. The only probability that has been ruled out is 100%. Other than that, anything's possible.
There's a certain percentage probability that Dimitri will die of natural causes or getting hit by a bus before his wedding. Is that going to make him offer to impregnate co-workers? The premise of this show is ridiculous.
The warlord guy was great to see, a character who doesn't scream Standard TV Type the way the rest of the cast does (other than Janis, who is pretty much my favorite character now and when this show gets cancelled at the end of this season, I hope Christine Woods gets another gig soon.)
But the flashforward idea is making less and less sense as something to build a story around. At this point, the visions seem to be merely "suggestions" about a possible future that is not too difficult to avoid by showing a little common sense.
Mark and Olivia don't have to move to Denver. Mark just needs to not go into work that day. How hard is that? How about if he asks the FBI if he can work out of another office in the LA area? He doesn't need to set foot in that building until after D-Day and can still do his job. Ever hear of e-mail?
And I don't buy the idea that someone as violent as the Somali warlord could turn around and become a peacenik so quickly. It might have been a good storyline to see that happen - assuming the writers could pull it off plausibly, which I'm not so sure about - but since he's DEAD, there goes that idea. So what was the point of the character anyway? "Here's an implausible plotline, hey, now we don't have to even attempt to pull it off!"
Feh, just cancel this mess already.
The problem with that is, he just saw a guy with a vision who got killed. So why shouldn't a guy like him, with no vision, survive? It makes absolutely no sense that anyone is treating the flashfowards as anything more significant than suggestions about what the future could potentially bring, with a probability that is completely unknowable. They could have a .000001% chance of actually coming true, or a 99.999999% chance. Or a zero percent chance for that matter. The only probability that has been ruled out is 100%. Other than that, anything's possible.
There's a certain percentage probability that Dimitri will die of natural causes or getting hit by a bus before his wedding. Is that going to make him offer to impregnate co-workers? The premise of this show is ridiculous.
I think a growing theme is that people no longer see the visions as things that CAN happen, but things that SHOULD happen. Basically people will get so obsessed of what they saw they'll do everything they can to make them happen, which may affect others to the point that their unwanted futures may happen too.
Vogel for instance may be revealed later to have a reason as to WHY he wants Mark dead beyond having just seen it to the point he'll work to make it happen. And it may involve killing Demetri as well.
Also, the Gibbons conspiracy dudes will probably be trying to make all the visions they know of try to happen too. Seem to have some vested interest in doing so.
Vogel for instance may be revealed later to have a reason as to WHY he wants Mark dead beyond having just seen it to the point he'll work to make it happen. And it may involve killing Demetri as well.
Also, the Gibbons conspiracy dudes will probably be trying to make all the visions they know of try to happen too. Seem to have some vested interest in doing so.
But the people who have "bad" visions end up looking like morons for not being more pro-active about defying their visions, considering the preponderance of evidence is that any vision can be thwarted, or at any rate, it makes more sense to assume it can and do something than to assume it can't and just sit around and moan about it.
However, Marc is probably just a self-destructive idiot and that's why he won't move to Denver or even change offices within LA. Then the problem becomes, why should I be invested in the story of someone that pathetic?
Which in turn is probably why the ratings have crashed. Too many viewers have realized there's no reason to watch a show when the main character is a contemptable idiot.
However, Marc is probably just a self-destructive idiot and that's why he won't move to Denver or even change offices within LA. Then the problem becomes, why should I be invested in the story of someone that pathetic?
Which in turn is probably why the ratings have crashed. Too many viewers have realized there's no reason to watch a show when the main character is a contemptable idiot.
But that's the whole thing, that by others trying their hardest to make their visions come true they bring about the bad futures the others don't want REGARDLESS of what they do to prevent them. I mean, if Vogel was serious about Mark being too important to Mosaic he'd probably just pull some bureaucratic BS to keep the Benfords in LA or he'll just send the death squad to Mark's new office instead.
A bland pathetic, self-destructive idiot.
A bland contemptable idiot.
Before Janice introduced Abdi to Mosaic, he wanted to be the Big Hero orating to the adoring masses. The evidence pointed to a different path, but he still wanted to be the Big Hero orating to the adoring masses. The so-called personality change wasn't such a radical turn around.
The real absurdity, as I said before, was the idea of a warlord, whose personal authority supposedly rested upon superstitious interpretation about how a kid herding goats survived a massacre somewhere else (
,) would be the kind of character who personally shoots people more or less at random to terrorize people, somehow succeeding, and also operating his own shoot'em up car but somehow managing not to already get his sorry ass killed, like the late unlamented Flosso. That moronic badass Joker BS didn't even make it to the end of Dark Knight Returns. You have to wonder if Mrs. Goyer isn't making fun of Joker fans by showing Joker type characters getting killed. The Better Angels storyline was actually interesting but they dumped it for the sleazy thrill of Americans (careful to make it an African American, though
) gunning down an African bad guy. Bad taste, pandering to an audience of whom the producers have a low opinion. The show has thoroughly established that events are occurring that plainly will lead to the future seen. For example, Aaron's daughter is indeed alive, and is lost in Afghanistan.
It has also thoroughly established that it is not certain whether actions taken to change the future won't cause the undesired events. For example, Mark thinks he has taken out at least one of the men in his vision, increasing his odds for a favorable outcome. In Demetri's case, his effort to prevent something he knew, by destroying Mark's gun, foreseen to have killed him, ended up taking it out of Mark's custody, now in the hands of someone who might actually want to kill him.
The internal consistency of the flashforwards of numerous witness is a major factor in acceptance of the visions as somehow accurate. So far, the only cases where the future was known to be averted involved suicide or homicide. If that's what it takes to change the future, lots of sitting around and moaning first is going to happen. The characters aren't morons.
The way the flashforwards are working in the show is the sf premise of the show. Now I remember people complaining about predestination controverting the free will of the characters and ruining the drama (confused thinking but deeply felt anyhow.) But when the inevitability of the flashforwards coming true was dumped, there was no way the plot could make sense. Paradoxes are inconsistent, more or less by definition, and inconsistent and sense don't mix.
Not being able to accept the premise will always keep you from enjoying a scifi show. That's why some people cannot abide any form of scifi whatsoever. There may be a revelation that the timeline was tampered with before the big blackout but that will just put the paradox at a further remove.
Nonetheless, the premises of the show is the premise of the show. If you can't suspend disbelief, you just can't. It is nonsense, though, to complain when the characters act rationally in the context of the premise. There have been shows where the characters acted irrationally in terms of the show's premise. That's bad writing.
Mark Benford is a flawed hero. People hate flawed heroes. What usually is called a flawed hero is just someone vicariously fulfilling antisocial impulses. At best, the so-called flawed hero exhibits virtues that simply aren't those of a Dudly Do-Right cartoon.
As to why the ratings dropped? No one knows for sure. But scenes like the children playing blackout are genuinely unsettling, something a show like V will almost certainly never accomplish. The casual glimpses of a nation in chaos, with soldiers on the streets, might have been felt as too raw to be comfortable. Or been perceived as too raw, leading to the repeated changes in show runner, and the relentless focus on sensationalism at all cost.
And anyways, it's not like Mark's "rival" Lloyd is much better. He knew who D Gibbons was and didn't tell anyone, which is a tad worse than Mark not telling anyone he was drunk in his FF (it's not like being drunk really was affecting anything he saw). Practically all the characters are flawed, real people.
My working theory: the future glimpsed were one where the blackout happened, but not the flashforward. We know the blackout happened in this future, since Benford and others were discussing related issues. But if the characters had known that their past selves would be 'tuning in' at this point, they should surely have tried to communicate better information to themselves (to say nothing of lotto numbers and the like).
It makes sense, from what I understand of temporal mechanics. The future is always in flux. When the blackout first hit, people's awareness was sent forward into a moment in time directly tied to that moment in the present--one in which they blacked out and woke up after the alloted time, but one in which they received no information about the future, because, logically, the future had to be created before it could be observed, so this is a future where such observation never occured. When people awoke with their memories of the future, it changed the timeline--as foreknowledge necessarily must in any scenario outside absolute predestination.
Don't think of the Flashforward as a vision--think of it as time travel, at a global scale. The time traveller leaves his present, creating a timeline in which he is absent--in this case, the awareness of all people during the blackout is that time traveller. When the time traveller returns to 'his' time two minutes later, he has knowledge of how things would have unfurled had he been absent--but because he is no longer absent, and moreoever is possessed of foreknowledge, that future changes.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Here's my theory:
There are many copies (of Lost)
and there is no plan.
There are many copies (of Lost)
and there is no plan.
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