Five Reasons Apple is Evil
- Thread starter Trekker4747
- Start date
I hate Apple as much as anyone, but the last one in that list (#1) is extremely misleading considering the "interact with these ads or your device doesn't work" thing appears to be required only if you were using a subsidized device. Sounds like Apple wants to keep its options open for a potential new market in subsidized hardware paid for by unskippable ads (maybe for schools?).
At least that's what I hope it is. Their marketshare would go into the crapper instantly if they ever pulled ANYTHING like that with a device that the user paid a significant amount of money for, including subsidized iPhones.
At least that's what I hope it is. Their marketshare would go into the crapper instantly if they ever pulled ANYTHING like that with a device that the user paid a significant amount of money for, including subsidized iPhones.
I found the list funny in all the double standards being applied against Apple.
#5. Apple Versus Their Customers
The big deal here seems to be that people want to customize their iPhones using jailbreak while still wanting support for these same iPhones by Apple. Is this a standard that you guys expect with other products? If you buy a new car, modify the engine or transmission with third party parts, do you think that the manufacturer's warranty will still be valid?
Jailbreak all you want, but stop running to Apple for updates. Problem solved.
Apple supports systems in the configurations that they support. Period.
#4. Apple Versus The First Amendment
In order to have access to stuff inside Apple, you have to sign an NDA. You are legally bound by that agreement, and Apple can (and has) used any and all methods at their disposal to find out who is the leak when information gets out.
I, personally, don't ask my friends at Apple anything about what they are working on. If I am told anything, I don't repeat it to anyone else. I've known people inside Apple for nearly 15 years, and it has been the same the whole time... nothing new.
As I recall, Apple's attorneys for these matters are Arent Fox.
#2. Apple Versus App Developers
The funny thing about the iPhone and iPod touch is that neither are computers. Both are peripherals which require a computer. You can by pass how Apple has set up the addition of Apps to the iPhone and iPod touch, but you would be back to the issues already covered above.
Apple's image is closely tied to their products... and the App store reflects on Apple.
How many grocery stores do you guys go to that sell porn? Many grocery stores have magazines, but few have adult magazines. Why is that practice okay for grocery stores, but something similar isn't for Apple's App store?
#1. Apple Versus Absolutely Everyone: The Masterplan
It is interesting, I've been watching much of the technology behind Apple's current offerings since the early 1990s (back when that technology was at NeXT Computers). One of the things that people at NeXT saw as an issue in how most computing environments worked was multiple copies of things included with each application.
For example, you have a word processor, a page layout app and an e-mail client, all of which might include their own spell checker... that is three spell checkers, on one computer. And it isn't just three spell checkers, it would also be three custom dictionaries if you tend to use words that aren't common. So NeXT's idea was to make something like a spell checker a shared service, and NeXT built one into the OS that any developer could access rather than writing one of their own into their application.
Apple does the same thing today... Mac OS X has a spell checker that Mail, TextEdit, Safari and most Cocoa based apps can access. And back when Microsoft decided to drop Mac support for Internet Explorer, Apple developed Safari, and then made Safari's HTML rendering engine a sharable service with other applications (such as iTunes).
It seems that this sharing thing isn't a good thing from the point of view of Windows users. Every app has to have their own bag of tricks and no sharing between apps (unless they are Microsoft apps, which seems to be okay with Windows users... who haven't been able to remove IE from their systems since Windows 98).
And it isn't as if Apple was any better at selling services to developers than NeXT was, Apple has dropped much of the shared services infrastructure within Mac OS X in 10.5/10.6. I still use 10.3, but I also use a ton of Cocoa apps which share features between them and I'd rather not lose that functionality. That functionality was, sadly, limited to apps that were from the NeXT days... most other Mac developers never took advantage of services.
But above and beyond all of that... Windows users are the most fickle of people. Apple made iPods for Mac users because the makers of most MP3 players weren't supporting Macs. Windows users cried foul and demanded iPods. Apple made iTunes and the iTunes music store for Mac users because most musics services didn't support Macs. Windows users cried foul again and demanded iTunes and the music store. Safari was Apple's reaction to Microsoft dropping Mac support for Internet Explorer, but after a few versions Windows users cried foul yet again and demanded a Windows version. But none of these Apple products are needed by Windows users, in fact NO Apple product is needed by Windows users.
If you don't like Apple... DON'T USE THEIR PRODUCTS.
Problem solved.
#5. Apple Versus Their Customers
The big deal here seems to be that people want to customize their iPhones using jailbreak while still wanting support for these same iPhones by Apple. Is this a standard that you guys expect with other products? If you buy a new car, modify the engine or transmission with third party parts, do you think that the manufacturer's warranty will still be valid?
Jailbreak all you want, but stop running to Apple for updates. Problem solved.
Many PC manufacturers consider the removal of the OEM OS from their systems to be voiding their support obligations. If your DVD drive dies on a PC and you are running Linux on it but it was sold with Windows, you might not get help with the issue even if you believe that the system is still supposed to be supported by the manufacturer. This has been an issue for years... and not just for users of Linux (I ran into it with OPENSTEP and Solaris as well). So those fluorescent shades already exist, but are usually reserved for attempts to get back the Microsoft tax when buying a new PC.
Apple supports systems in the configurations that they support. Period.
#4. Apple Versus The First Amendment
In order to have access to stuff inside Apple, you have to sign an NDA. You are legally bound by that agreement, and Apple can (and has) used any and all methods at their disposal to find out who is the leak when information gets out.
I, personally, don't ask my friends at Apple anything about what they are working on. If I am told anything, I don't repeat it to anyone else. I've known people inside Apple for nearly 15 years, and it has been the same the whole time... nothing new.
As I recall, Apple's attorneys for these matters are Arent Fox.
#2. Apple Versus App Developers
The funny thing about the iPhone and iPod touch is that neither are computers. Both are peripherals which require a computer. You can by pass how Apple has set up the addition of Apps to the iPhone and iPod touch, but you would be back to the issues already covered above.
Apple's image is closely tied to their products... and the App store reflects on Apple.
How many grocery stores do you guys go to that sell porn? Many grocery stores have magazines, but few have adult magazines. Why is that practice okay for grocery stores, but something similar isn't for Apple's App store?
#1. Apple Versus Absolutely Everyone: The Masterplan
It is interesting, I've been watching much of the technology behind Apple's current offerings since the early 1990s (back when that technology was at NeXT Computers). One of the things that people at NeXT saw as an issue in how most computing environments worked was multiple copies of things included with each application.
For example, you have a word processor, a page layout app and an e-mail client, all of which might include their own spell checker... that is three spell checkers, on one computer. And it isn't just three spell checkers, it would also be three custom dictionaries if you tend to use words that aren't common. So NeXT's idea was to make something like a spell checker a shared service, and NeXT built one into the OS that any developer could access rather than writing one of their own into their application.
Apple does the same thing today... Mac OS X has a spell checker that Mail, TextEdit, Safari and most Cocoa based apps can access. And back when Microsoft decided to drop Mac support for Internet Explorer, Apple developed Safari, and then made Safari's HTML rendering engine a sharable service with other applications (such as iTunes).
It seems that this sharing thing isn't a good thing from the point of view of Windows users. Every app has to have their own bag of tricks and no sharing between apps (unless they are Microsoft apps, which seems to be okay with Windows users... who haven't been able to remove IE from their systems since Windows 98).
And it isn't as if Apple was any better at selling services to developers than NeXT was, Apple has dropped much of the shared services infrastructure within Mac OS X in 10.5/10.6. I still use 10.3, but I also use a ton of Cocoa apps which share features between them and I'd rather not lose that functionality. That functionality was, sadly, limited to apps that were from the NeXT days... most other Mac developers never took advantage of services.
But above and beyond all of that... Windows users are the most fickle of people. Apple made iPods for Mac users because the makers of most MP3 players weren't supporting Macs. Windows users cried foul and demanded iPods. Apple made iTunes and the iTunes music store for Mac users because most musics services didn't support Macs. Windows users cried foul again and demanded iTunes and the music store. Safari was Apple's reaction to Microsoft dropping Mac support for Internet Explorer, but after a few versions Windows users cried foul yet again and demanded a Windows version. But none of these Apple products are needed by Windows users, in fact NO Apple product is needed by Windows users.
If you don't like Apple... DON'T USE THEIR PRODUCTS.
Problem solved.
J
Jetfire
Guest
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
Apple is basically Microsoft but with slicker devices (which by the way is no small virtue, having slicker products is a good thing after all, heck i have an iphone and like it).
Now that they have the kind of power in their space (iPhones, iPods, and related) that Microsoft has (had?) in the PC space, they are basically acting the same way. Draconian restrictions, DRM everywhere, lock-in, etc.
For my part, I'm just glad the PC space isn't run the way Apple runs its mobile space. It would suck if Microsoft refused to let Firefox run on Windows because it "duplicates functionality of IE".
Apple products are well-made, and their UIs tend to be pretty smooth, and that counts for a lot... but when Apple "fans" try and tout the virtues of Apple over, say Microsoft or others, for reasons over than the visuals or occasionally UIs, I tend to roll my eyes a lot.
Now that they have the kind of power in their space (iPhones, iPods, and related) that Microsoft has (had?) in the PC space, they are basically acting the same way. Draconian restrictions, DRM everywhere, lock-in, etc.
For my part, I'm just glad the PC space isn't run the way Apple runs its mobile space. It would suck if Microsoft refused to let Firefox run on Windows because it "duplicates functionality of IE".
Apple products are well-made, and their UIs tend to be pretty smooth, and that counts for a lot... but when Apple "fans" try and tout the virtues of Apple over, say Microsoft or others, for reasons over than the visuals or occasionally UIs, I tend to roll my eyes a lot.
It's remarkably easy to avoid using Apple products - you can save a great deal of money with no sacrifice in functionality at all, and in fact widen your choices of software and support in almost every area.
Most people clearly get this - look around at what hardware and operating systems predominate in the real world - why doesn't everybody?
Most people clearly get this - look around at what hardware and operating systems predominate in the real world - why doesn't everybody?
Yet almost every person I've ever talked to who has switched to Mac has vowed never to go back to PC, myself included.
Apple's overpriced. Their user interfaces are vastly overrated. iPod especially. They target their advertising squarely at wannabe counter-culture douches. The whole aesthetic is insufferable to me. That's probably the main problem, they're selling an aesthetic more than a computer.
If you don't like Apple... DON'T USE THEIR PRODUCTS.
Problem solved.
That was an absolutely superb post.
I will add my tuppence worth to the App Store issue as I know a thing or two about software development for mobile devices.
Apple are, through the App Store, the distributor of this software. As such they are liable for that software, even though they didn't create it. If that software knocks down AT&T's network or hands over your bank account details to scammers, it's their fault. They are accountable to you the customer and to the operators their mobile devices run on.
This is not situation that is unique to Apple. Applications on Symbian OS work using a capability system that require them to be signed before they can be installed. Unsigned applications can be used but they will be effectively sandboxed, able to access only their private directory in the file system and not much else.
If you want the capabilities required to do pretty much anything else you have to get your application tested and signed.
Dennis is right, strictly speaking. Computers all pretty much do the same things and now that the web has become the great equalizer in terms of productivity/functionality, the OS you run or the brand of computer that runs it has become less and less important.
However, speaking strictly in terms of functionality misses the big picture. Apple is excellent at distilling the core 80% of a task, be it editing a photo, making a movie, using a mobile phone, etc and then making those core tasks really, really easy to do. For tech-geeks like myself, that 80% is often limiting because I am one of the edge cases that wants to go that extra 20%. My parents don't. My fiancee doesn't. So for them, a Mac computer or an iPhone represents the easiest way around to get done what they want to get done. Additionally, the quality of Mac products (particularly their portable computers) really is second to none. The new aluminum Macbooks are the best notebook computers that I have ever used, in terms of fit and finish. They also provide an unbeatable combination of performance, battery life and portability.
Like anything, it's a value proposition. If ease-of-use and fit-and-finish are less important than pricing, then Macs aren't for you. But it's fallacious to presume that the only thing that Apple brings to the equation is styling.
What most people don't seem to realise is that last 20% can be achieved, just as easily on a Windows PC. Usually because they've listened to some hyperbole about Apple's computers running some sort of children's OS. Just because something is easy to use that doesn't mean it is also less powerful.
OK, I'll be the contrary opinion. I used Mac. Got annoyed at not being able to play my games. Went to PC and was content. Granted, Mac was less stable back when I used it (OS 7.0, I think). But I used a mac for video editing at school and the program crashed and I lost all my work (after two hours). Now I'm not saying that Mac isn't generally stable. I'm just saying that so is my Vista computer (and everyone I talked to loves Windows 7), so I don't see the point in paying higher prices.
The standard canard is that Windows users are savvy about computer tech and Macs are dumbed down for Mac users.
My experience with average users is that they (both Windows and Mac users) don't know anything about their systems. Many Windows users I've seen will run to one or two applications they are comfortable with and will actively avoid doing anything else on their computers. Most windows users don't use anything other than Microsoft applications, so the vast selection of applications for Windows is wasted on them.
One of the funniest things I ever saw (on either platform) was a woman (in an office environment) who was asked to make a copy of a disk for her client, but was unable to copy all the files. As it turned out, she was doing the copying in Word, and any file Word couldn't open, she couldn't copy. To her, the computer was the application Word.
At the same time, most Mac users have no idea what they have sitting before them. I have given talks to auditoriums full of Mac users showing them aspects of their systems they had no idea even existed. Most of the Mac Geniuses you'd find at an Apple Store have no clue what a Mac can really do. Part of that problem stems from the fact that most Mac users use their Macs like they always have and are unaware of the vast number of new technologies that Apple acquired when they bought NeXT (technologies Sun Microsystems was working to integrate into their OS before Apple bought out their partner from under them).
And most Mac developers (including developers like Adobe) never bothered to take advantage of the new environment either. But then again, cross-platform applications are usually the worst applications on any environment as they are written to take advantage of the worst of the environments that they run on and then run the same on all subsequent environments.
But Mac users aren't alone in not knowing what they got. When I was actively using Windows I couldn't believe the way Windows users were afraid (literally phobic) of Windows NT. Here was a great operating system built on the foundations of a great operating system (OS/2), and all the tech savvy Windows users I knew hated it (mostly because you couldn't play games on it).
But then you have people like Dennis, who claims to be computer savvy and a happy Windows user, but yet still finds the need to bash other platforms. People like him are generally doing their bashing more to convince themselves than anything. And their are people who feel tremendous anxiety when others are happy using something they chose not to. It isn't enough that they are happy with their own choice, because if someone else is happy with a different choice it keeps a seed of doubt in their mind. It would be nice if people like Dennis (on any platform, and in any part of society above and beyond computers) could get past that, but until people are comfortable in their own decision making we are stuck with this type of behavior.
Dennis, Windows is the best platform for you, so you can stop worrying about Mac users and Apple. There is no need for you to peak into Apple discussion threads because you have already made the best choice for you. Please, live a happy and content Windows life.
And that goes for all Windows users.
Mac users, same thing... you can stop worrying about Windows users and Microsoft. There is no need for you to peak into Windows discussion threads because you have already made the best choice for you. Please, live a happy and content Mac life.
There... see how easy that was.
My experience with average users is that they (both Windows and Mac users) don't know anything about their systems. Many Windows users I've seen will run to one or two applications they are comfortable with and will actively avoid doing anything else on their computers. Most windows users don't use anything other than Microsoft applications, so the vast selection of applications for Windows is wasted on them.
One of the funniest things I ever saw (on either platform) was a woman (in an office environment) who was asked to make a copy of a disk for her client, but was unable to copy all the files. As it turned out, she was doing the copying in Word, and any file Word couldn't open, she couldn't copy. To her, the computer was the application Word.
At the same time, most Mac users have no idea what they have sitting before them. I have given talks to auditoriums full of Mac users showing them aspects of their systems they had no idea even existed. Most of the Mac Geniuses you'd find at an Apple Store have no clue what a Mac can really do. Part of that problem stems from the fact that most Mac users use their Macs like they always have and are unaware of the vast number of new technologies that Apple acquired when they bought NeXT (technologies Sun Microsystems was working to integrate into their OS before Apple bought out their partner from under them).
And most Mac developers (including developers like Adobe) never bothered to take advantage of the new environment either. But then again, cross-platform applications are usually the worst applications on any environment as they are written to take advantage of the worst of the environments that they run on and then run the same on all subsequent environments.
But Mac users aren't alone in not knowing what they got. When I was actively using Windows I couldn't believe the way Windows users were afraid (literally phobic) of Windows NT. Here was a great operating system built on the foundations of a great operating system (OS/2), and all the tech savvy Windows users I knew hated it (mostly because you couldn't play games on it).
But then you have people like Dennis, who claims to be computer savvy and a happy Windows user, but yet still finds the need to bash other platforms. People like him are generally doing their bashing more to convince themselves than anything. And their are people who feel tremendous anxiety when others are happy using something they chose not to. It isn't enough that they are happy with their own choice, because if someone else is happy with a different choice it keeps a seed of doubt in their mind. It would be nice if people like Dennis (on any platform, and in any part of society above and beyond computers) could get past that, but until people are comfortable in their own decision making we are stuck with this type of behavior.
Dennis, Windows is the best platform for you, so you can stop worrying about Mac users and Apple. There is no need for you to peak into Apple discussion threads because you have already made the best choice for you. Please, live a happy and content Windows life.
And that goes for all Windows users.
Mac users, same thing... you can stop worrying about Windows users and Microsoft. There is no need for you to peak into Windows discussion threads because you have already made the best choice for you. Please, live a happy and content Mac life.
There... see how easy that was.
^And those of us who use both ? 
I think there's a group of users who feel the need to evangelise about their own personal choice of computer - or games console or mobile phone or whatever.
As long as it's doing the job you need it to do then what's the problem ? I am a Mac convert but I will recommend a Windows PC if that's what I think will help the person asking me for advice the most. I'm not going to recommend a Mac to a gamer or someone who wants a media centre for instance.
I think there's a group of users who feel the need to evangelise about their own personal choice of computer - or games console or mobile phone or whatever.
As long as it's doing the job you need it to do then what's the problem ? I am a Mac convert but I will recommend a Windows PC if that's what I think will help the person asking me for advice the most. I'm not going to recommend a Mac to a gamer or someone who wants a media centre for instance.
Yep. "Easy" is relative; constraints are absolute. I have better things to spend my money on than a computer that gives me no extra functionality, limits my choices and complicates that "20%."
I've used Macs - not worth the price differential, never mind the rest of it. The two people I've known who've encountered hardware problems with Macs, BTW, eventually left the brand behind in frustration at the relative expense and complexity of repair or replacement. I'll grant that hardware problems with Macs may be rarer than with PCs - that said, it doesn't take long or cost much to resolve most of those that come up.
Similar threads
