"Fistful of Data's" is just not a good episode!
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
I don't know. You see kissing all the time in tv. No reason why you couldn't do it in that scene. I mean the episode would still be bad IMO but at least the final scene would be solid.
Jason
It's not homophobia for a heterosexual man not to want to kiss a man who looks like his coworker.
Also mercy != weakness. If anything mercy is a sign of strength.
I agree it's a bad episode though, but because it was a cliche holodeck malfunction episode.
Also mercy != weakness. If anything mercy is a sign of strength.
I agree it's a bad episode though, but because it was a cliche holodeck malfunction episode.
I agree but Data was playing a woman who had a interest in Worf. She is the issue, not Worf. Why would a program that includes a romance, end without a Kiss or more important why would you choose for her to go for a hug/head rest over a kiss if the kiss is going to be the better punchline to the joke.
Jason
The thing is, look at this from the writer's perspective - that moment simply wasn't the point of the story, it's inconsequential. It's just a cute button on the holodeck-set story, but what's important is the resolution of the Worf and Alexander story, which is what we see in the final scene when Worf shows excitement about joining Alexander in the Old West again. You've got to stick to your landing as a writer and follow your arc from start to finish and what propels the story is Worf's reluctance to spend time with his son, not whether or not we have an awkward kiss from Data-as-barmaid to Worf. This wasn't the episode to provoke ire from conservative audience members, save that "The Outcast".
Ancient might just be a catchall 24th century term to describe a time so primitive it didn't even have cars.
I wasn't thrilled with the premise of "Fistful" when the episode began (another holodeck episode, really?), but I found myself enjoying it as it unfolded. Troi was a blast, as were Worf, Alexander, and of course the Datas. If enjoyment is all that matters, then "Fistful" is a fine episode, right up to and including the Ent D heading off into the sunset.
Also, it's one of the few episodes to make use of personal force fields (why aren't they standard issue?), so that rubbed the Trek tech nerd in me just the right way.
Also, it's one of the few episodes to make use of personal force fields (why aren't they standard issue?), so that rubbed the Trek tech nerd in me just the right way.
Ehh, it's not great but its fun and we get to see the characters in enjoyable contexts.
I alwaysat the nomenclature of the "ancient west." We don't use the word "ancient" to describe historic eras five centuries ago.
Kor
That's always bugged me about Star Trek. It would be like calling Shakespeare "Ancient Theater". That's classic Greek Theater, not Elizabethan stuff. If anything they would bump the terminology up an era so the Middle Ages and maybe the Renaissance would be "ancient", but not the 19th/20th centuries.
I don't know. I can of like the idea of doing a man on man kiss, without the episode being about that. Just like the episode were KIrk kisses Uhura is really not about that as well. In fact Uhura I don't think is even in the episode until maybe the last 10 minutes or so.
Jason
I would have cut that whole bit. It's bad enough without having Data kiss Worf. It's like a tacked on "comedic" moment.
What is funny(but shouldn't be) is that Worf is such a crappy father, that he goes to his boss to ask if he can work on his ONE day off, just so he can avoid spending time with his son.
Sometimes the writers could be merciless to Worf.
What is funny(but shouldn't be) is that Worf is such a crappy father, that he goes to his boss to ask if he can work on his ONE day off, just so he can avoid spending time with his son.
Sometimes the writers could be merciless to Worf.
You don't have to cut anything. Then scene can play like it does only she kisses him or tries to kiss him as oposed to just resting her head on his chest.
Jason
Guys, not all Western themed entertainment had love interests smooching up a storm. And yeah, I don't see Worf kissing a holo-character, period.
I was thinking of it more from the intent of the writers. They wanted to play the joke of Data in Dress coming onto Worf. Worf feels uncomfortable because it's Data in a dress, and it was the 90's so the idea is a guy like Worf would most likely find it kind of gross as well since he is a conservative, manly man type.
IMO the joke only works with a character like Worf. If it's Picard and he feels uncomfortable it feels offensive because we expect him to have a more evolved sensibility. He would most likely make the kiss just so the program ends and knows that isn't a big deal. One harmless kiss isn't going to make him gay or anything.
With Worf you get to sort of make fun of his rigid personality or the other option is he surprisingly likes it. Either way works but I think the second option would work less because you would sort of need to set that up in a previous show. KInd of like how Willow on "Buffy" being gay was set up when we saw her as the evil vamp version of her and Angel makes that line about how some of the real personality stays intact.
I feel the kiss was avoided simply because they felt it would offend viewers which to me feels like a wrong thing to cave in on.
Jason
Fun episode. I would have preferred if they dialed down the Data gimmick, cut some stuff and spent more time with Worf and Alexander before they get separated. Lots of opportunities there for father son storyline. Maybe get a little more serious and bring up some stuff about his mom. There's plenty of other jokes to balance it out.
I feel like the resolution of how Worf gets out of this situation needed something more to it. If the villain data was meant to have Data's abilities Worf would have no chance to survive even with his shield thingy.
I think I'd prefer to have this extended to a two-parter instead of Time's Arrow.
I feel like the resolution of how Worf gets out of this situation needed something more to it. If the villain data was meant to have Data's abilities Worf would have no chance to survive even with his shield thingy.
I think I'd prefer to have this extended to a two-parter instead of Time's Arrow.
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