First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-3

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Retrospect

Wow. This episode felt really short. Seven got "raped", Doctor demands justice, they accuse some guy and then that some guy kills himself. The End. Damn.

Doctor seems to have taken the role of Kes now. Like Kes was a catalyst for Doctor's self-discovery, and like Kes was the protector of Doctor's humanity, so now Doctor has become the catalyst for self-discovery, and in the case of this episode, protector of Seven's virginity.

I really loved Doctor's self-righteous anger: "Seven has been violated. Justice has to be served swift and hard!!!" The way Doctor just treated that Kovin guy around when investigating - Seven has her own white knight.

Doctor was the one who really initiated the hatred in Seven against that man. He did it with the best of intentions.

And I'd do it too, if I was in a similar situation.

For the record, I can't really understand this psychological phenomen that a painful memory might not actually be true. But untrue it was, since Seven wasn't actually "raped."

And then Seven is already so emotionally involved and then, when Janway and Tuvok have doubts and that scene in sickbay - she feels so alone.

B'Elanna seemed to be quite pleased after Seven punched Kovin. No one in the crew really liked that guy I guess.

However, it was just the Doctor who treated Kovin badly. Janeway seems quite surprisingly impartial. So I can't see why the guy snapped so quickly.

He killed himself. That was stupid. A bit extreme. But poor Doctor - rape is such a complicated issue and he just wanted to protect the damsel in distress and it went a bit wrong. And so he asks for deletion. But I say that the death of suicide guy is still his own fault. Where I in Doctor's place I'd act the same really.

Damn such a good uneasy episode. Twice in a row. Prey also ended on an uneasy note.

 

[Jaespol]

I totally agree about how the episode felt so short, I can barely remember what they were doing for most of the episode, nonetheless I do remember it being a good episode, although I enjoyed most of these episodes first time round purely because a new and awesome character was in them.

And you're totally right about the Doctor becoming to Seven like Kes was to him.

 

[Praetor]

I enjoyed both "Prey" and "Retrospect."

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

The Killing Game

Hmm... hmm... I just don't know what to say.

Nazis, americans, klingons, world war II, an alien takeover, explosions, gunfire, Jeri Ryan singing, Hirogen politics... I was sort of reminded this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gn7VmFTLOY – especially when the Klingons came.

It was fun and exciting and cool. But oh so very stupid. It reminded me of Michael Bay movies, but since Voyager doesn't use Hans Zimmer as a composer, there were no musical emotional moments like this – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh8AO64JKx0.

That is actually one of my gripes with Star Trek shows – the lack of distinctive and memorable music, which would make a lot of moments even more entrenched in memory. Also unepic and boring moments could be transfered by music.

I like two-parters. I like when a season has a lot of them. I enjoyed The Killing Game too. But, Year of Hell was much better because – it had a message, it had emotional connection, it actually revealed something about the nature of characters and also it was more intense.

While it was fun to see character's in different roles... that basically was it. Interesting. Silly episode really. Not a bad way to spend 90 minutes – but it had none of the greatness that was Year of Hell.

Mindless fun with great visuals and competent acting. I didn't realize that klingon was Janeway.

And the Hirogen...? Meh really. And why nazi's? Why not the crusades or any other historical setting?

I wanna see more Jeri Ryan singing.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Vis a Vis

It just hit me that there has been no pure Tom episode in a while. The last one was Investigations. He has always been the co-character. A role he does really well, since he's likeable to watch. And for a while there, when there was this major "day in the life" thing going on, he got his fair share of meaningful attention. But now, when Voyager goes back to season 1-3 style character episode... well, my problem is that Tom is slightly made up. The problems he has are the same he seemingly had in Investigations - just slightly different and presented as the truth this time. Somewhat. Kinda. Because it's the imposter Tom. Some scenes are almost thematically the same as the whole Tom rebels arc. But some of those have real Tom in them too.

I got a serious deja vu - all the scenes with Chakotay, Janeway, etc.

The plot itself... it was really really meh. No tension at all. Really really forgettable episode.

It did have a great scene though - in the sickbay with the imposter Tom and the Doctor. The Doctor had me with his "all classics signs of inferiority complex" speech.

I wonder when I'll see what the secret Starfleet message is all about.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Omega Directive

Janeway's hair looks really bad in this episode. Watched a random clip from season 5 and Janeway looked really beautiful there... perhaps that's why it looked so bad to me, but I don't recall thinking this before in season 4.

Anyway, I didn't find myself that interested in the Omega plot, but this episode had a lot of good character moments. Mostly a Janeway&Seven show; but Kim, Tuvok and Chakotay got some attention too (thus enforcing my impression of season 4 as the most ensembly season so far). I liked how this episode kinda continued the kal-toh relationship between Tuvok&Kim from Alter Ego.

Best moment - Seven calling people 3 of 10 and 6 of 10.

Seven is... lately I'm sometimes annoyed by her. It's her voice I guess. Or I don't know. But in the end I bought into Seven's obsession and certain fragility that this episode showed and I liked that.

I do wonder what they did with the alien scientists after destroying Omega. Dropped them into outer space?

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Unforgettable

Virginia Madsen reminded me of Kes. She has a similar voice tone. It also reminded me how much I miss Kes's voice. Seven is starting to get on my ears a bit. Some voices have a calming presence and Seven's... well I know she's supposed to have an uneasing effect but still.

Anyway I liked watching Virginia and Chakotay together. But I'm not entirely satisfied by the episode itself. I like the idea. But the problem is that they spend too much talking about love in very high concept manner rather than loving each other's brains out all night long.

Why is Seven so interested in who flushes in who's presence anyway? Hmm...

I liked how Chakotay was suspicious of her and outright said that "How can I be sure you don't use me for your purposes" or something like that. At least we have intact characterization. Painful memories of that borg girl and Seska.

However for some reason that borg girl loving was much more effective than this episode. There was just too much talking and too high concept approach and...bam... poor Chakotay. I also was reminded of his angry warrior speech all the time.

It was a nice idea but Neelix is the last person I want to hear wax poetical about love. Episode itself not very strong, but I enjoyed Chakotay's and Virginia's scenes.

 

[Praetor]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

"Unforgettable" is, unfortunately, ultimately forgettable.

 

[McCoy]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

It just occurred to me that I'd love to see Jimmy Bob review nuBSG.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Living Witness

Oh my. Best damn episode ever. I just love historiography. And imagine what would happen if historiography is the theme of the episode. I also love the other historiography episodes - Remember and Distant Origin.

Poor Doctor. Left behind.

But oh my. I fell in love with the Kyrian version of history and I think I just found my favorite captain ever - even if she's just a reinterpretation.

"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative; Violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."

Oh it's so good.

"Arm the assault approach. Fire at will. Hail them."

The way she said it. Oh yes. More.

"Defeat? Genocide? Why quibble with semantics?"

Yes please.

"Don't look so shocked, ambassador. This is what you wanted, isn't it?"

I'm in heaven.

This Janeway is so awesome that she assimiliated the Borg.

The way she was, behaved, just waved everything away, her attitude... divine. There is a God and Janeway knows it's her.

And the crew. Harry Kim has never been (and I fear he never will) be so good. And Chakotay. And Tom. "Earn your rank for once." And then they're all at each other's throats and Janeway's reaction... so dismissive. And the uniforms. Best uniforms ever. It's amazing what a black undershirt and a pair of black gloves can do. In fact the uniforms were so awesome, that I was very dissapointed when we were shown the Doctor's version, because now I have seen the truth and the real uniforms are so awful, and the knowledge that just a minor modification would make them look so good...

Anyway it was very fun. But also very insightful about the nature of history and it's writing. There's some good social commentary here.

Though the Kyrian version was self-glorifying, in the case of the two races, the subordinate Kyrians had clearly suffered oppression and prejudice. But the dominant race was also most eager to find justification for their prejudices when Doctor was activated. They jumped at the chance to rewrite history in their own way. So. I don't know how to finish this thought...

"I'm a medical hologram...programmed to do no harm but I'm doing harm on a global scale. Ever since you reactivated me I've been concerned with clearing Voyager's good name. But that's not important now. There's more at stake....Facts be damned! Names, dates, places--it's all open to interpretation. Who's to say what really happened? And ultimately, what difference does it make? Tedran was a symbol to your people and your cause. Who am I to take it away?."

And I like how it was directed. The way it moved to the ending... people watching a glorifying version of Quarren's and Doctor's tale. It was so sweet. Doctor Genocide, our hero.

In essence: it was so good I fail to say anything.

One could see it as a allegory to revisionist history writing, but when one learns historiography... well suffice to say, each era interprets and says things a bit differently. It's very fun to read late 19th century history books - even if it's just for the "oh my, they have no idea how they're world will end" kicks. They're also very racist - a la "history of Ecuador shows that 'dem nigger's and injuns are just genetically doomed to govern things badly."

I'm not talking about the episode anymore, am I. Anyway, everyone should now talk to Janeway in the same way like Kim did. It looks so much cooler this way.


This episode is Unforgettable.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

It just occurred to me that I'd love to see Jimmy Bob review nuBSG.

Really? Why is that?

Well, I am almost first-timer there. I have seen season 1 in it's entirety, but then my local tv channels stopped showing it. I liked what I saw, but back then I still relied on my local channels to provide me with the latest shows. So I never got around to watch the next seasons. My favorite character was Baltar.

Yeah, I could do it.

 

[data_dave]

Hi guys, im new btw!
I actually quite liked the first seasons....
but sometimes they had really bad CGI bits in it, but uno. was the 90's

 

[Praetor]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

I really like "Living Witness" even if the museum set makes me think of "Insurrection" since they reused it there.

But oh my. I fell in love with the Kyrian version of history and I think I just found my favorite captain ever - even if she's just a reinterpretation.

"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative; Violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way."

Oh it's so good.

"Arm the assault approach. Fire at will. Hail them."

The way she said it. Oh yes. More.

"Defeat? Genocide? Why quibble with semantics?"

Yes please.

"Don't look so shocked, ambassador. This is what you wanted, isn't it?"

I'm in heaven.

This Janeway is so awesome that she assimiliated the Borg.

I think I've found my new sig quote.

The way she was, behaved, just waved everything away, her attitude... divine. There is a God and Janeway knows it's her.

And the crew. Harry Kim has never been (and I fear he never will) be so good. And Chakotay. And Tom. "Earn your rank for once." And then they're all at each other's throats and Janeway's reaction... so dismissive. And the uniforms. Best uniforms ever. It's amazing what a black undershirt and a pair of black gloves can do. In fact the uniforms were so awesome, that I was very dissapointed when we were shown the Doctor's version, because now I have seen the truth and the real uniforms are so awful, and the knowledge that just a minor modification would make them look so good...

Don't forget that this Doc was an android instead of a hologram, yellow eyes but no gold skin. The depiction of the crew and Voyager was so self-parodying and fanwankish that it was absolutely perfect ... and it made me a little sad that the other guys were back next episode.

(Fakeotay's tattoo made me think of Q in "The Q and the Grey" - "Mine's bigger!" )

Anyway it was very fun. But also very insightful about the nature of history and it's writing. There's some good social commentary here.

{snip}

One could see it as a allegory to revisionist history writing, but when one learns historiography... well suffice to say, each era interprets and says things a bit differently. It's very fun to read late 19th century history books - even if it's just for the "oh my, they have no idea how they're world will end" kicks. They're also very racist - a la "history of Ecuador shows that 'dem nigger's and injuns are just genetically doomed to govern things badly."

I'm not talking about the episode anymore, am I. Anyway, everyone should now talk to Janeway in the same way like Kim did. It looks so much cooler this way.

This episode is Unforgettable.

I agree. It's a good episode with a good message. Could it have been done on TNG? Maybe. But at least the premise is rooted firmly in the series' premise. (And "Unforgettable" might have been a more appropriate title here. )

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Demon

Mmh. Confident Harry. A bit sudden, but a nice change. It's funny, Garret Wang has a pretty face but his character's unconfidence rendered it useless. It's funny because I often found myself thinking about completely unrelated things when watching this episode.

"In the last four years a lot has happened. I fought the borg, been transformed into an alien, helped to defeat the hirogen. I even came back from the dead." Harry Kim explaining his new-found confidence.

How about: "In the last four years a lot has happened. I fought the borg, been transformed into an alien, helped defeat the hirogen. I even came back from the dead. In fact, I'm not actually Harry Kim, because the real Harry Kim is flying in space somewhere in Vidiian region, and I'm the duplicate from the duplicated ship, and I came here because your Harry Kim managed to kill himself and my ship was about to be destroyed and so I thought - why not, I'm as good as the original. I even play kal-toh with Tuvok."

I can't even remember what went on exactly. Stuff happened. First it was like a Tom&Harry show and then... a duplicated Voyager crew found themselves a home.

B'Elanna is back. I was surprised that I found myself to be dissapointed in her return. Surprised because... I like B'Elanna. But for some reason I was relieved that she was missing for 3 episodes. And I don't even know why. Perhaps it's because she's mostly rendering technobabble anyway and these last few episodes have been quite free of it.

Now thinking of it. B'Elanna is mostly rendering technobabble and being aggressive. Seven is mostly rendering technobabble and being... well aggressive.

Tom&Harry banter just felt so fake.

And Chakotay. What happened? In the scene where he and Seven are looking for Tom&Harry... he just sleepwalked it through. He didn't put any... well anything into his lines. Like he was just reading it off from a card or something. It's the first time he has done it. Or the first time I've noticed it. Because the last episode was Living Witness and everyone was juicing the maximum out of those unforgettable scenes. And so because of the stark contrast I now noticed a surprisingly "dead" Chakotay. No, I'd still say it's the first time. He has not always have had memorable scenes (and in season 4 he has had quite a few memorable scenes), but he didn't sleepwalk them through before.

And he didn't sleepwalk in all of his scenes. Just in that where he is with Seven.

Also.

"Footprints. I guess you never assimilated any indian people, eh."

Oh dear god. It always annoys me how surprisingly nationalistic Star Trek characters sometimes are. And not nationalistic in... well they are nationalistic in the 20th century way. One would think that after 400-500 years the nature of their ethnicity would change and they wouldn't use 19th century stereotypes to become one with their ancestors. Because nations change. Sure ancestors are ancestors... but it's a long jump from a viking to a modern-day swede. Or from 18th century england to a society that created Monty Python.

And I would think it would be the same way with american indians. They would have come very far from the "bow&arrow" stereotypes. I'd imagine something like mexicans - mexican art and mexican "day of the dead" have obvious aztec elements, but they are not aztec of the aztec era. And it's how it's supposed to be. Mexican art and "day of the dead" are awesome.

A living nation always changes with time and reinterprets itself - just because it consists of dynamic force called human beings.

So Chakotay shouldn't be doing "see how indian I am? I read footprints." Because well, by then "being indian" would mean something else, just like being english or being dutch is now something else than it was a few hundred years ago.

I know that it's supposed to be a inside "heh-heh, he's so ripping the stereotype a new one" joke, but that's the thing. We are aware of those stereotypes, but after 400 years none of us should even remember those stereotypes anymore.

Heck, I don't even remember what stereotypes existed in my nation some 150 years ago. I can read about them though, but when I read about them I sure can see how things like self-images and images of the others have changed over the years.

So basically. Stuff happened. Kim's duplicate of a duplicate is in home. A very inspirational tale.

 

[Jaespol]

Demon was one of the most pointless episodes ever, nothing really memorable happened and the characters didn't develop or anything. Nothing at all was actually added to the show, it was pointless.
And I disagree that the Harry is a different Harry, its the same Harry just with different memories for perhaps a few hours from the others.

 

[Praetor]

"Demon" was also something of a superficial rip-off of TAS's "The Ambergris Element."

 

[McCoy]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

It just occurred to me that I'd love to see Jimmy Bob review nuBSG.

Really? Why is that?

For insights like this:

A living nation always changes with time and reinterprets itself - just because it consists of dynamic force called human beings.

So Chakotay shouldn't be doing "see how indian I am? I read footprints." Because well, by then "being indian" would mean something else, just like being english or being dutch is now something else than it was a few hundred years ago.

Because after a while you get sick of the same stuff over and over in these forums. You're approaching VOY with none of the biases we've been seeing around here for years and it's refreshing. And I love how you are relating these stories to your apparently anthropocentric (is that a word?) education.

Well, I am almost first-timer there. I have seen season 1 in it's entirety, but then my local tv channels stopped showing it. I liked what I saw, but back then I still relied on my local channels to provide me with the latest shows. So I never got around to watch the next seasons. My favorite character was Baltar.

Yeah, I could do it.

Oh what you could do with BSG, imo.

 

[Brit]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

So Chakotay shouldn't be doing "see how indian I am? I read footprints." Because well, by then "being indian" would mean something else, just like being english or being dutch is now something else than it was a few hundred years ago.

Heck, I don't even remember what stereotypes existed in my nation some 150 years ago. I can read about them though, but when I read about them I sure can see how things like self-images and images of the others have changed over the years.

I think there could be a possibility that Chakotay's "tribe" doesn't exist in the 21st centruy. That it was reassembled from descendents of the original tribe in an attempt to reconstruct a past culture. They may have been working with oral traditions and there could easily have been a certain amount of "Contamination" from the other cultures. In fact the colonies on Dorvon and Tribus could have all been "reconstructed" cultures.

Brit

 

[Karnbeln]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

So Chakotay shouldn't be doing "see how indian I am? I read footprints." Because well, by then "being indian" would mean something else, just like being english or being dutch is now something else than it was a few hundred years ago.

Heck, I don't even remember what stereotypes existed in my nation some 150 years ago. I can read about them though, but when I read about them I sure can see how things like self-images and images of the others have changed over the years.

I think there could be a possibility that Chakotay's "tribe" doesn't exist in the 21st centruy. That it was reassembled from descendents of the original tribe in an attempt to reconstruct a past culture. They may have been working with oral traditions and there could easily have been a certain amount of "Contamination" from the other cultures. In fact the colonies on Dorvon and Tribus could have all been "reconstructed" cultures.

Brit

Ooh, I like that idea.

 

[Praetor]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Yeah, that makes me a little happier.