First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-3

[Jaespol]

I liked Random Thoughts, I thought that B'Ellana's complete disbelief at what was going on was pretty funny, it was also cool how they had clips from Event Horizon in there.

Concerning Flight wasn't enjoyable for me and I found it annoying.
I did like the idea we saw them actually buy weapons to try and replenish their supply and yet in the end they didn't buy and this idea is never explored again, so much for a stab at continuity

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Mortal Coil

Hmm... Star Trek seems to be very schizophrenic when it comes to matters of spirituality. No afterlife, no soul - yes afterlife, yes soul, etc. This episode sort of implied that there is no afterlife or even soul, that your body is what you are, while just a few seasons ago Chakotay's spirit wreaked havoc in Voyager. Or just in last season we had that New Age propaganda - Sacred Ground (for anyone who's interested, this is the woman who wrote Sacred Ground - http://www.celticshamanism.com/gc.html).

Fortunately this episode didn't outright say: "listen up trekkies, there is no life after death", but focused instead on some really good character drama, and thus wisely leaves some ground for personal biases to interpret it as personal biases do. And the character drama was amazingly good. It's amazing what wonders Ethan Phillips can do with Neelix when given some material. The suicidal Neelix was effective and believable. It's always worthy of mention when the episode manages to make one feel for Neelix.

By the way, Robert Beltran is just natural in these kinds of tense scenes as Neelix's suicide scene.

I also love surreal scenes like Neelix's vision quest scene. Wonderfully creepy. I always welcome these kinds of scenes.

This episode was written by Bryan Fueller. His first show Wonderfalls also had a strong presence of native americanisms.

Overall a good character episode.

 

[Jaespol]

I thought it was an excellent character episode the only problem was the fact that if Neelix can be saved with nanoprobes then so can almost everyone!

 

[McCoy]

I don't see how the Gift had a beginning anywhere. It was abrupt and had to be abrupt.
And I'd hardly say VOY has amazing continuity just because two character had a connection and then got together in a later episode. This is the show that can't decide how many crewman are on board for goodness sake.

Heh, I never said the continuity was amazing. Only that it was there in some form. In fact I think I said something along the lines of "VOY is no DS9 but..."

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Waking Moments

This was really fun episode. I love episodes that play around with sense of reality like that. This episode also marks the end of the first half of season 4. So I thought I'd do a little "impressions of the first half of season 4" thing.

First-timer's impressions of the first half of season 4

I've often heard that with season 4 the show becomes Star Trek: Janeway & Seven show. Well, it has yet to become one. The first half of season 4 has been the most productive for all members of the cast. They all get used, they all get cool stuff to do, they all get to do some serious acting - the first half of season 4 has been the most brilliant to Voyager's cast yet. Even to Kes - she got a lot more do to in Scorpion II and Gift, than in most of season 2 for example.

Seven has yet to take spotlight from any other. She got one episode dedicated to her past and a dramatic and effective introduction, but after that she's mostly been in the background - being all borg-like, with a few insightful moments here and there. But so far, every character has gotten some insightful and effective character moments in random scenes throughout the first half of season 4. So, in the background, but not like Harry Kim has been.

Chakotay has been very present in the frontline in this first half.

Tuvok got to do his classic psychopathic rage again.

Neelix had a really brilliant suicide scene.

Janeway defined her captainity in Year of Hell. Or well, basically all of my impressions about Janeway's nature came together in that episode, so that's why I consider it a captainity defined moment for her.

Tom and B'Elanna have their on-going romance - sarcastic and enjoyable relationship with likeable characters, with a wonderfully acted fragile "I love you" scene in Day of Honor.

Kim - well Kim has been kinda reduced to a comic character, but this could also be considered an upgrade, since after Chute, he mostly just spent time doing "Captain, ship aproaching." He might turn into the new Neelix though.

Only Doctor has been more in the background in this first half. But, not in the sense as some characters have been for periods of time in previous seasons. Just that this season has had more random character banter and insight with character's who usually miss out on it, and Doctor is mostly in sickbay. I did notice that the Doctor also has a danger of falling into Neelix-like character - his speech in the beginning of Year of Hell is something I'd consider a Neelix-like moment. I guess it's because with the loss of Kes, who did serve as a catalyst of sort for Doctor's serious acting moments, the writer's have yet to find someone who would be interested in Doctor's humanity.

The feel of season so far - pretty much non-existent. Seven's dramatic entry did color the beginning of season, but so far it has been season 3 all over again. The difference is that while in season 3 the episode quality ranged from "OHMYGOD it's heaven" to "Jesus Christ, have mercy" (sometimes within one episode) in here it's "above average" to "OHMYGOD it's heaven". So mostly consistent in quality (and the quality is good). And the character's are somehow more present and bantery than ever before. So the first half of season 4 = season 3, but with more consistency in quality and more character banter and presence.

I would kinda like to see a continuous threat of somekind, but so far season 4 has bathed in the fun of the voyager character's - and that's good too. My idea of perfection is a sort of mix between continuous and stand-alone. But I don't demand perfection.

When I say fun I don't just mean jokes and stuff, though it's a part of it - I also mean scenes like the confused hatred of Chakotay in the end of Nemesis or Neelix's suicide in Mortal Coil. Fun = character's expressing emotions.

 

[Jaespol]

I loved Waking Moments, I always think of it as A Nightmare on Elm Street in space, great fun.
I think Season 4 certainly was very Seven-centric and this is more marked in the last half of the season but when its a character as new and fresh as Seven, its hard to mind.
There are a few episodes that seem like hangovers from the early seasons such as "Concerning Flight" and "Random Thoughts" but overall the quality really does go up a lot in this season, I'm glad you're liking it.

You're about to meet a new enemy a couple of episodes from now so be patient ..but don't expect any arcs...I told you that Voyager was pretty arcless from season 3 onwards!

 

[Praetorian]

True, though Season 4 does have some ongoing* plots, even it's stuff like "Seven of Nine learns about (her) humanity" or "Paris and Torres romancing". However more interesting ongoing plots are going to appear and I think the last episode is a great book end.

I also agree that the "Seven of Nine show" only becomes apparent later, in the Sixth Season. Even in the Fifth Season all regulars get their fair share of episodes...but in the Sixth there's atleast two episodes that weren't supposed to be about Seven and were rewriten for her and most of the cast gets very little to do.

*But then, so did Season 3, crossing the Nekrit expanse and leaving "familiar" space, seting up and eventually introducing the Borg and a more powerfull enemy, and Parris and Tores relationship.
However stuff like Seska and the Kazon will never return.

 

[Jaespol]

The show gets less seven centric from season 5 onwards, I tallied up the Seven-centric episodes from 4-7


Season 4. 11
Season 5 8
Season 6. 7
Season 7. 5

 

[Praetorian]

Yeah, I also did a tally after I wrote that post and indeed Seven had more episodes in Season 4. However other characters do get alot less episodes/focus in the following seasons, so I guess that creates the "it's the Seven, Doctor and Janeway Show" feeling.
And also because as you said, Seven was still fresh in the Fourth Season.

Or perhaps her episodes tended to be better and therefore more remembered...

 

[Jaespol]

I think that later episodes have more doctor episodes, that certainly throws the balance a little bit. There are also the occasional anomalies like "Pathfinder" and "Fury" and episodes where there really isn't a singular focus. Overall though I find that season 6 and season 7 got quite even, B'Ellana certainly got some excellent episodes - "Barge of the Dead", "Muse", "Lineage".

But don't go spoiling your fun Jimmybob! I like to hear your unpolluted opinions of these episodes without preconceptions or absorbing other people's opinions, its fresh.

 

[Praetor]

But don't go spoiling your fun Jimmybob! I like to hear your unpolluted opinions of these episodes without preconceptions or absorbing other people's opinions, its fresh.

I agree!

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Message in a Bottle

Brilliant Doctor episode. It's brilliant because of the banter between EMH 2 and Doctor alone. It was just so fun to compare those two and also reminiscence how far the Doctor has come - "I've battled macroviruses and the Borg, I've travelled through time and I've had sex." Kinda silly, but the banter was just very entertaining.

I do wonder that how the Voyager crew has survived so far - Doc just gone for a day and already so many needy people? Methinks the Voyager crew is spoiled.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Hunters

I like how the previous episode directly leads into this. They're still there, getting their letters from Starfleet. And also the threat that was introduced in the previous episode.

What do I think of this new threat? Skinning people and removing their bones can be quite cool. We'll see. So far I'm amused but not impressed.

But for the most part, the characters dominated this episode. Which brings me to this.

The show gets less seven centric from season 5 onwards, I tallied up the Seven-centric episodes from 4-7

Season 4. 11

By my calculations, there are only 11 episodes for me left. And by my understanding, the majority of those 11 Seven episodes should be in these 11 episodes.

Or in other words - could you name the episodes that you consider to be seven-centric, so we could compare.

So far, I only count 1 - the Raven. Perhaps the thing is that season 4's approach to using character's in an episode is different. While there aren't any pure "day in the life" episodes, season 4 is dominated by a "day in the life" feel. In previous seasons, if the episode focused on one character, the other's were left to being just there, speaking technobabble and shaking themselves.

But in season 4, the dialogue in episodes is much more character focused – in a „day in the life“ sort of way. And thus they feel a lot more present than ever before. I'd say Hunters and Revulsion are good examples of season 4's „day in the life“ style.

And since the previous seasons are still fresh in my mind, so perhaps that's why season 4 doesn't feel as Seven-centric as I've been told, because I've got more feel of the character's in this season that ever before.

 

[Jaespol]

OK, the Seven centric episodes until "Hunters"

Scorpion II
The Gift
The Raven
Scientific Method
Hunters

and then 6 after that, two episodes being the two parter which is still pretty Seven centric.

 

[Praetorian]

Of those only "The Gift" and "The Raven" are Seven centric to me...
Though episodes like "Day of Honor" and "Revulsion" have B-stories that are Seven centric if I remember right.

Other than those two I mentioned I would consider "Retrospect", "The Omega Particle", "One", "Prey" and "Hope and Fear" (not sure about these last two) as Seven centric.

 

[Jaespol]

Of those only "The Gift" and "The Raven" are Seven centric to me...
Though episodes like "Day of Honor" and "Revulsion" have B-stories that are Seven centric if I remember right.

Other than those two I mentioned I would consider "Retrospect", "The Omega Particle", "One", "Prey" and "Hope and Fear" (not sure about these last two) as Seven centric.

I would say any time she is the center of an A or B plot, its Seven-centric.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Re: First-timer's impressions of seasons 1-4

Well, Hunters is definitely not Seven-centric.

There was Harry with his "did I get a letter from Mom?" thing.

There was Tom with his father issues and B'Elanna getting new insight about this new man in her life.

There was B'Elanna and Chakotay, with them getting the news that the Maquis have been wiped out.

There was Janeway learning that her fiancee got married.

There was Neelix trying to please Tuvok.

There was Tuvok getting news that he's a grandfather, and being pleased in his own way. At first he acts all proper and says things like "duty first", but when no one can see - he gets to the letter in the first place.

There was Seven trying to please Janeway, and a insightful moment between Seven and Tuvok.

There was a wonderfully laid-back talking scene between Chakotay and Janeway in the end.

All characters got their share of attention. Thus this is not a Seven-centric episode.

In fact, in Hunters, Seven as a character was more in the background than the others.

Only Doctor was left aside, but he dominated in Message of the Bottle anyway, and since Hunters is so continous from MotB, as a whole it works really well as a crew episode(s).

Now, Scientific Method. It was as much a B'Elanna&Tom and Janeway episode than it was Seven's.

Scorpion II is as much a Janeway and Chakotay episode than it was Seven's.

When people say that Season 4 is the most Seven-centric season, it leaves the impression that she dominates at the expense of others. While in fact, it's the crew as a whole who dominates (or has dominated so far) in season 4.

Nemesis and Raven are examples of what I'd consider old-school (as in season 1-3 style) character episodes. But mostly the episodes are new-school - in the sense that all character's get attention and chances for self-expression. I guess a crew episode would be an accurate term, but only Hunters is purely crew episode, it's just as a whole it feels like a crew season. And Seven as a member of crew get's attention too - together with the crew.

Character's talk with each other. Sure, the episodes still have trouble-of-the-week approach, but never before have the writers put this much talking scenes between the characters beside the trouble-of-the-week plot. Previously, it was the trouble-of-the-week dominating, while now it's the crew dominating. Trouble-of-the-week has sort of become irrelevant, in the sense, that now it's just part of the "day in the life".

I'd say it's the crew season. I do acknowledge, that since I haven't finished the season, I might be so wrong that you all facepalm in unison and I lose all credibility for being proven so stupid by being so wrong. Impressions and facts might be two different things - but that's the risk I'm willing to take. So I say it's the crew season and I'll let Voyager prove me wrong, so help me God.

 

[Jimmy Bob]

Prey

Hmm... well this is definitely a Janeway&Seven show. If this is how the rest of the season will look alike, then I can see where the Star Trek: Janeway&Seven claim comes from. But I won't admit that I'm stupid just yet.

Overall it was a good episode. It's also the second time in this season when Voyager avoids the feel good conclusion. Poor species 8472 - it just wanted to go home. It was so alone.

However I have some thoughts about what was just not right.

Hirogen are not particulary menacing. So far they remind me of these guys - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsEyubiq3k4. Sure, they skin people and remove their bones for trophies, but it's not presented as distrubing. Sort of cool in a comic book way.

For the record, the Borg and species 8472 are more closer to these guys - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ49BG4eBSo.

The thing is, I keep wondering that wasn't using the relay system (and later destroying it) enough for Voyager to become mortal enemies for Hirogen.

Like, Voyager contacts home, but someone notices it and starts hunting Voyger. Message in a Bottle and Hunters sort of implied that. But in Prey, the Hirogen don't really care about Voyager, because Voyager just stumbled on a random Hirogen that was hunting a random species 8472. And I wonder if future episodes need yet another excuse for the Hirogen to start becoming professionally interested in Voyager's demise. They have already so many excuses. The first excuse was the best one - Voyager awakened the attention of someone it shouldn't have.

Species 8472 itself would potentially be a more cooler threat, as they have that "demons from hell" thing going on. Voyager ventured into hell, and now the hell-lords are *aware* of them. The way I was lead to believe, this is how the Hirogen were going to be too - Voyager accidentally contaced someone who shouldn't be *aware* of it's existence. Only, they are *aware*, but don't particulary care. If it was done like this then the Hirogen would be more threatening.

Basically, I think I'd rather see species 8472 instead of the Hirogen, but I would be quite satisfied with the Hirogen too, if they would have been single-mindedly hunting Voyager already now. It's the fact that they don't yet, that makes me dissapointed. I really liked how they were introduced in the Message in a Bottle. Only this episode didn't really build up from the "Voyager accidentally contaced someone who shouldn't be *aware* of it's existence" premise, since Voyager just stumbled on a random Hirogen ship that was hunting someone else.

So I guess the Hirogen will be quickly dealt with, because they don't really work anymore.

Other than the slight dissapointment in unused potential, this episode was pretty good in exploring the Janeway&Seven relationship. The last time we saw this was in Raven. I wonder what will come next for Seven. Right now I'm a bit angry at her - because of poor species 8472 (it just wanted to go home - so sad) and this line: "I believe that you are punishing me because I don't think the way that you do... because I'm not becoming more like you. You claim to respect my individuality... But in fact, you are frightened by it."

If I was Janeway I would whip her Borg ass and teach her a thing or two about compassion against your fellow sentient being.

No, actually it was a great way to end it. On one hand Seven wants to please Janeway, on the other hand she also sees herself as being better and smarter than Janeway. I guess she would like to see Janeway as Borg Queen, only she keeps confusing her. So she tests Janeway.

Great character episode. It's just sad that they kinda screwed up with the interesting premise that (I think) the Hirogen (would have) had. Would rather see species 8472 again, but I guess I won't.

I also remember that Starfleet sent an encrypted message in the previous episode. I was kinda hoping it would have something to do with the Hirogen. I now hope it is at least something cool.

 

[Jaespol]

I never like the idea that they got in touch with home so early in the series - starting from Message in a Bottle, it takes away that emotional stress from the crew of thinking what their family are thinking back home, I think this was a bit of shark jumping moment.

And I agree 100% with you about the Hirogen, in fact "comic book" is a phrase I've used to describe them and they are much too comic book. The Vidiians - now they were a frightening enemy, the Hirogen are just stupid. I'm not gonna ruin anything but I wasn't happy with any development that ocurred there.

I liked "Prey" a lot and I totally agreed with what Seven did, I just love it when Seven says "You will fail"- one of the best delivered lines in all of Voyager, and I loved the final scene too. Getting the letters scenes were ok but overall I don't think they should have got in touch with the A quadrant so soon.

As for you thinking that the episodes I listed aren't Seven-centric...I feel whenever a character plays an important role in the plot its partly their episode - it may not be a character episode- but the episode is still muchly focused on them.

There's a website out there on Voyager and it gives the pictures of the two characters the episode most focuses on at the top and so far its tally agrees with mine.
I'm surprised you agreed with Janeway, most people here agree with Seven I feel...it was a bit like Picard in "I, Borg" when you couldn't believe how stupid he was being.

 

[kimc]

"I believe that you are punishing me because I don't think the way that you do... because I'm not becoming more like you. You claim to respect my individuality... But in fact, you are frightened by it."

If I was Janeway I would whip her Borg ass and teach her a thing or two about compassion against your fellow sentient being.

In many ways Seven was acting like a typical 13-year-old - everything's a drama. Like an adolescent Seven wants the security of living on Voyager under Janeway's wing but at the same time she wants to be independent when it suits her. You can see why Jeri Ryan once referred to Seven as an adolescent in an adult body.