First into Delta Quadrant

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Rian Cleary, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    John Byrne doesn't seem to think much of non-TOS Trek, so it's not surprising that he would play fast and loose with it. And New Visions is more of an experimental art project, IMO.

    Kor
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Alas, that's not the problem with the episode. The planet itself might be located wherever the plot calls for it to be - but unfortunately, the wormhole mouth is specified to be right next to the planet.

    Now, we now the wormhole mouth wanders about; that's the very point. But clearly the Ferengi arrived at this planet by emerging from the wormhole (rather than flying for thousands of lightyears in their shuttle, which admittedly is the same shape as the highly capable and superfast Quark's Treasure), or else they wouldn't have ended up on a planet that's close to a wormhole stop.

    So we'd have to postulate the Ferengi managed to get back to the wormhole somehow, but instead of reaching the still stable Alpha end, they just found a new Delta opening. Which probably ought to have been mentioned in dialogue. But then again, perhaps not.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The original series and movies always depicted warp speed far faster than Voyager did.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But system J-25 is not in the Delta Quadrant but only 7,000 light years from Federation space! Apparently it was in the Beta Quadrant where as the Delta Quadrant is some 60,000 or 70,000 light years away according to Voyager's Caretaker pilot! :borg:
    JB
     
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  5. MAGolding

    MAGolding Captain Captain

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    Voyager had reason to travel in a straight line from the Caretaker's Array to Earth or someplace in the Federation close to Earth. Therefore if the position of Voyager was plotted on a two dimensional star map of the sky as it looks from Earth the position of Voyager would change very little from episode to episode and season to season despite getting tens,hundreds, and thousands of light years closer to Earth.

    So if the location of the Caretaker Array was 30 degrees away from the border between the Gamma and the Delta Quadrants as seen from Earth, Voyager would continue to be about 30 degrees away from the border between the Gamma and the Delta Quadrants as seen from Earth for the rest of the series. And thus Voyager would be a lot more than 200 light years from the Gamma quadrant until sometime after Voyager passed into the Beta Quadrant and was almost back to Federation Space.

    But if the location of the Caretaker Array was 0.01 degrees away from the border between the Gamma and the Delta Quadrants as seen from Earth, Voyager would continue to be about 0.01 degrees away from the border between the Gamma and the Delta Quadrants as seen from Earth for the rest of the series. And thus Voyager would start out quite close to the border between the Delta and Gamma Quadrants, and might be less than 200 light years from the Gamma Quadrant early in the series after having traveled only a few thousand light years and while still deep in the Delta Quadrant.

    Since Data said the point where the pod of Dr. Arrador was lost was in the Delta Quadrant and also about 200 light years from the Gamma Quadrant, it seems reasonable to deduce that Dr. Arrador's pod was lost in the Delta Quadrant less than 200 light years from the border with the Gamma quadrant. Since Dr. Arrador and his companion were found on a planet that Voyager visited it seems logical to deduce that planet was within the short range of their pod from the point where they were stranded, and thus that Voyager made its entire straight line journey back to Earth while only a few hundred light years from the border between the Gamma and Delta Quadrants.

    And how far could the little Ferengi pod travel to reach the planet where they settled? Hundreds or thousands of light years into the Delta Quadrant? Would the pod have enough food and other supplies? Would the pod be fast enough to even travel thousands of light years into the Delta Quadrant in the 6 or 7 years before Voyager arrived at the planet? And it wouldn't make much difference to where Voyager started out from unless the Ferengi pod traveled at least a few thousand light years deeper into the Delta Quadrant.

    Furthermore, the wandering Delta Quadrant mouth of the Barzan Wormhole did appear quite close to the planet where the Ferenghi settled. If that planet was thousands of light years deeper into the Delta Quadrant than the point where they were stranded, what would be the odds against the wandering Delta Quadrant mouth of the Barzan Wormhole appearing near that planet? Would those odds be well - astronomical?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  6. Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I thought it was the Alpha Quadrant side of the Barzan wormhole that jumped around. If I remember correctly, the reason for Voyager's urgency to go through the wormhole was because the mouth on the other side was aligned with the Alpha Quadrant and was ready to jump. When the Ferengi shuttle entered and mucked around a bit, there was a line of dialogue (Kim? Chakotay?) where they said that now BOTH sides of the wormhole were jumping. I could be wrong though. May need to check the episode again.

    Edit: Nevermind. I checked. I got it backwards.
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nope, the Alpha end was originally stable - this is why the bidders in the contest were in the mistaken belief that the entire thing would be stable.

    At the conclusion of the TNG episode, the Alpha end was still stable, but the Delta end had just jumped away from the Ferengi. At the time, it was not known that this end did not jump randomly, but instead returned to previously visited spots or their vicinity quite predictably. At the conclusion of the VOY episode, both ends had gone completely wild, with the Ferengi supposedly inside.

    Reason, yes. Choice, usually not. Major deviations from the course would be dictated by those opportune jumps spanning thousands or even tens of thousands of lightyears; minor deviations would come from going around hostile territory or astronomical obstacles. The inconvenient thing here is that we saw the end result, in a series of onscreen graphics. And those showed the starting point to be significantly offset from the quadrant border, plus a rather meandering path.

    And the doubly inconvenient thing is that the meandering never goes anywhere near the quadrant border. Which of course is logical, given the establishing of the starting point - but one of those jumps could have made the difference and facilitated "False Profits". Too bad none ever did.

    Quite possibly, assuming it was identical to Quark's Treasure in other aspects besides exterior shell. But the interiors look significantly smaller. Perhaps the Ferengi just follow the money and build the same shape in all sizes and price categories?

    Why not? The Ferengi are famed for their high quality replicators, and their infinite capacity at repairing them, at least aboard DS9.

    Perhaps, as we never got definite figures for Quark's Treasure. Most probably not, though. And the big question is, why would they? Why not settle on the very first Planet of the Gullible?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. MAGolding

    MAGolding Captain Captain

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    Afte reading this post I have created a new thread with a new solution to the problem of the route of Voyager. https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-route-of-voyager-a-new-solution.297846/
     
  9. USS Excelsior

    USS Excelsior Commodore Commodore

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    Descent was in the Delta Quadrant, because it displayed that on the Science Station display which was depicting where the trans warp conduit ended up.
     
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