First Impressions of The Apple

[royalfan5]

1: Do the Starfleet pants have pockets?
2: An explosive rock?
3:I do enjoy the blood red background
4:Nice acting by Nimoy while taking the darts to the chest.
5:Shatner is just chewing scenery like it's going out of style in this one.
6: Good thing they brought plenty of spare Red Shirts.
7:I like the Oompa-Loompa kit
8: Yay for Paper Mache Gods.
9: Nice work Pavel.
10: At Starfleet Academy, do they teach how to fall safely on the bridge?
11:Overall, I was just kind of meh.

 

[RAMA]

1: Do the Starfleet pants have pockets?
2: An explosive rock?
3:I do enjoy the blood red background
4:Nice acting by Nimoy while taking the darts to the chest.
5:Shatner is just chewing scenery like it's going out of style in this one.
6: Good thing they brought plenty of spare Red Shirts.
7:I like the Oompa-Loompa kit
8: Yay for Paper Mache Gods.
9: Nice work Pavel.
10: At Starfleet Academy, do they teach how to fall safely on the bridge?
11:Overall, I was just kind of meh.

So what about the fact that Kirk was cast as Satan and he possibly destroyed an entire culture??

Maybe you could put all these in one thread eh?

RAMA

 

[Expo67]

Not a bad episode. I liked the fact that David Soul guest-starred as one of the natives. He did an excellent job.

I will say this, the body count for the Redshirts was a bit high.

 

[Yevetha]

Good episode overall.

 

[BillJ]

So what about the fact that Kirk was cast as Satan and he possibly destroyed an entire culture??

First you'd have to make a determination if they truly fit the definition of a 'culture'. No art, no sex and no free thought seems like a pretty shallow existence.

http://www.roshan-institute.org/474552

 

[RAMA]

So what about the fact that Kirk was cast as Satan and he possibly destroyed an entire culture??

First you'd have to make a determination if they truly fit the definition of a 'culture'. No art, no sex and no free thought seems like a pretty shallow existence.

http://www.roshan-institute.org/474552

Well there is sex..its not unusual for Earth cultures to have arranged marriages, so that one is out...art? They paint themselves, they design baskets, do their hair, wear flowers, this does not sound like a culturally bankrupt society, and EVEN if that was the case, if the society is stable and functioning, what right besides our own preconceived morality do we have for interfereing with them? We don't even know the creator's of Vaals ultimate purpose, why tamper with it?

Lots of art here:

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/2x05/theapple_330.jpg

 

[FormerLurker]

There wasn't any sex. That's how you make 'replacements,' and Vaal didn't want any of those running around.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

I don’t think they really had a culture nor were they living in a paradise. Whatever items from their society which could be arguably called “cultural” (their style of clothing, the face-painting, and their religious beliefs), were all dictated to them by the machine that was Vaal. I think that in order for a group of people to be said to have a culture, these aspects (among others) have to in some part be the product of a choice made on their part. This choice needs to be the product of their own thoughts, perceptions, and ideas and not something that has been spoon-fed to them. They never really worshiped Vaal so much as they obeyed blindly without any conscious decision to do even that. I think that worship needs to be the product of a conscious choice to do so. After all, one can even choose to obey blindly, but it is in the choosing that the worshiping becomes validated. The natives cannot be said to have truly lived in a paradise because that word itself had no meaning for them as they had never known what it is to struggle, to grow, to build. I think that “The Apple” is more a story about growing up and coming into one’s own. A story of leaving behind child-like innocence in favor of striking out into the unknown and making one’s own mark (either individually, or collectively as a culture or a society). Our heroes acted as the impetus for this. They gave the natives a choice. Here’s an interesting thought, can we really assert that destroying Vaal was so devastating to them when they all seem so happy and excited about making their own way? Also, the parallel to Satan is not really accurate. Doesn’t Kirk promise that the Federation will help to get them started on their way? That’s way more than Satan, who just kind of slips away after having stirred the pot in Eden, did for Adam and Eve.

 

[RAMA]

I don’t think they really had a culture nor were they living in a paradise. Whatever items from their society which could be arguably called “cultural” (their style of clothing, the face-painting, and their religious beliefs), were all dictated to them by the machine that was Vaal. I think that in order for a group of people to be said to have a culture, these aspects (among others) have to in some part be the product of a choice made on their part. This choice needs to be the product of their own thoughts, perceptions, and ideas and not something that has been spoon-fed to them. They never really worshiped Vaal so much as they obeyed blindly without any conscious decision to do even that. I think that worship needs to be the product of a conscious choice to do so. After all, one can even choose to obey blindly, but it is in the choosing that the worshiping becomes validated. The natives cannot be said to have truly lived in a paradise because that word itself had no meaning for them as they had never known what it is to struggle, to grow, to build. I think that “The Apple” is more a story about growing up and coming into one’s own. A story of leaving behind child-like innocence in favor of striking out into the unknown and making one’s own mark (either individually, or collectively as a culture or a society). Our heroes acted as the impetus for this. They gave the natives a choice. Here’s an interesting thought, can we really assert that destroying Vaal was so devastating to them when they all seem so happy and excited about making their own way? Also, the parallel to Satan is not really accurate. Doesn’t Kirk promise that the Federation will help to get them started on their way? That’s way more than Satan, who just kind of slips away after having stirred the pot in Eden, did for Adam and Eve.

I disagree...what do the natives do while they wait to get orders? You don't think they produce anything original? That would make the speculation in the episode highly unlikely.

Paradise is what the outsiders from the UFP called it...I doubt the natives considered it paradise, they only know it worked for them.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

There wasn't any sex. That's how you make 'replacements,' and Vaal didn't want any of those running around.

Well there is sex for reproduction...and Vaal would provide the "necessary instructions" as Spock suggests.

RAMA

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

I disagree...what do the natives do while they wait to get orders? You don't think they produce anything original? That would make the speculation in the episode highly unlikely.

Paradise is what the outsiders from the UFP called it...I doubt the natives considered it paradise, they only know it worked for them.

They collect fruits and vegetables for the next time Vaal "signals" that he needs sustenance. I really don't think they would do anything unless told to by Vaal, that is what made the society so shocking to our heroes.

Insofar as to how well it worked for them, well that is debatable. If they lack the ability to think independantly, can they really know if something works for them or not. I just don't think they knew (or could know--and that is the point) anything else until their encounter with Kirk and the rest.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

Sorry my last post didn't turn out right. The top part is a quote from Rama and then below that is my rebuttal.

Thanks

 

[BillJ]

Sorry my last post didn't turn out right. The top part is a quote from Rama and then below that is my rebuttal.

Thanks

Just go in and edit it with

at the beginning of the post.

 

[BillJ]

They collect fruits and vegetables for the next time Vaal "signals" that he needs sustenance. I really don't think they would do anything unless told to by Vaal, that is what made the society so shocking to our heroes.

Insofar as to how well it worked for them, well that is debatable. If they lack the ability to think independantly, can they really know if something works for them or not. I just don't think they knew (or could know--and that is the point) anything else until their encounter with Kirk and the rest.

Which is where you can make the argument that they weren't protected by the Prime Directive as they are an arrested culture.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

I tried, it didn't work.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

They collect fruits and vegetables for the next time Vaal "signals" that he needs sustenance. I really don't think they would do anything unless told to by Vaal, that is what made the society so shocking to our heroes.

Insofar as to how well it worked for them, well that is debatable. If they lack the ability to think independantly, can they really know if something works for them or not. I just don't think they knew (or could know--and that is the point) anything else until their encounter with Kirk and the rest.

Which is where you can make the argument that they weren't protected by the Prime Directive as they are an arrested culture.

Exactly!

 

[Gojira]

Not a bad episode. I liked the fact that David Soul guest-starred as one of the natives. He did an excellent job.

I will say this, the body count for the Redshirts was a bit high.

I always liked this episode. Not only was their a high redshirt body count Spock got the crap beat out of him a few times in this episode!

 

[T'Bonz]

I fixed it. You didn't have an end quote tag.

 

[A.V.I.A.F.]

I fixed it. You didn't have an end quote tag.

Thanks!

 

[CaptMurdock]

Not a bad episode. I liked the fact that David Soul guest-starred as one of the natives. He did an excellent job.

I will say this, the body count for the Redshirts was a bit high.

I always liked this episode. Not only was their a high redshirt body count Spock got the crap beat out of him a few times in this episode!

Between getting shot by the plant and then zapped by lightning ... not the best mission for Spock.

OTOH, we did get this little lady kissing some major butt: