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First Firewire400, now Mac ditch the Express Port???

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Admiral
Admiral
New Macs got revealed today (yesterday?) including a tempting Macbook Pro 13", but the return of a Firewire port to the 13" formerly-named Macbook doesn't make up for the fact the express port has been replaced with an SD card port! Now only the 17" comes with an express port.

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs-13inch.html

Personally I think this is a step in the wrong direction for Mac. They constantly slam Microsoft and yet they're shooting themselves in the foot!
 
In lieu of software compatibility, Macs really need that hardware compatibility. The more options they have for hardware, the better they will sell. I love my iMac and it's 3 years old. It's very flexible with it's hardware, and one of the reasons why I want to stay with Mac. I think this is a step back for them, and I hope this isn't the beginning of some very bad decisions on their part.

J.
 
I'm just ecstatic to have Firewire back. Apple is right that express card is a pro feature. They are wrong to think that all pros want to use a giant 17" "notebook."
 
I imagine a very similar discussion taking place when Apple decided to stop equipping its machines with floppy disk drives. Seriously, I don't know anybody who actually uses a PCMCIA card or anything these days. In fact, I haven't even seen a card in years. What can you get on a card that you can't connect to via USB or Bluetooth?

SD is a much better choice, IMO.

J. Allen said:
In lieu of software compatibility, Macs really need that hardware compatibility. The more options they have for hardware, the better they will sell. I love my iMac and it's 3 years old. It's very flexible with it's hardware, and one of the reasons why I want to stay with Mac. I think this is a step back for them, and I hope this isn't the beginning of some very bad decisions on their part.

J.
Click to expand...

I've been with Apple now for two years, and haven't run into any compatibility issues. I'll grant that it takes some hunting to find the software you need to do various tasks, but the programs are there -- and usually they're of a significantly higher caliber than the comparable junk warez you'd find on the likes of Download.com.
 
Spilio said:
I imagine a very similar discussion taking place when Apple decided to stop equipping its machines with floppy disk drives.
Click to expand...

Given that ExpressCard is faster than USB/FireWire, and the more recent standard, I don't.
 
Spilio said:
What can you get on a card that you can't connect to via USB or Bluetooth?
Click to expand...

eSATA (which may be built-in now) or specialized stuff like the Blackmagic intensity HDMI capture cards. Like I said, pro stuff so that's not a bitching point for me. What is a bitching point for me is the assumption that pros all want 17" notebooks. Some of us just want a supplement to our Mac Pros that's as portable as it can practically be.
 
Spilio said:
I've been with Apple now for two years, and haven't run into any compatibility issues. I'll grant that it takes some hunting to find the software you need to do various tasks, but the programs are there -- and usually they're of a significantly higher caliber than the comparable junk warez you'd find on the likes of Download.com.
Click to expand...

To a degree, yes. However, I own "The Sims 2" for PC. If I want the Mac equivalent, even used, it's $30. The PC version used? $4. So I dual boot and run my Windows OS to play my PC copy. That's just a game, though games are the worst offenders.

Another example: Graphics programs. Art, photo and drawing freeware for the Mac is very limited. I own a program called Pixelmator for the Mac, and I paid $59 for it. For the PC, I have PSP XII and for that I paid $59 at the time. Pixelmator compared to PSP XII just cannot compete. It's clunky, non-intuitive, has fewer tools and is slower and underpowered. PSP XII on the other hand gives me almost as much freedom as Photoshop, is fast, easy to use, has alot more refined tools, and is intuitive to use. It is far superior to Pixelmator.

The same can be said for DVD authoring freeware programs. Windows? I can name five right now, all spyware free. Mac? I can name two, and they are rather slow and clunky.

There are many programs for PC that are freeware that cost on a Mac and there is no freeware equivalent, believe me, when it comes to Windows, I am the Master of Freeware. I know where to get it, and what to get. I never have spyware, adware, kludgware or virii. Macs have an okay selection, but it usually isn't as good as it's Windows equivalent. To get better quality for Mac, it usually costs, and not always reasonably priced either.

I love Mac OS X, but I realize it's shortcomings. This is why I dual boot.

J.
 
You should give VMWare a shot. If you have enough RAM, it's a lot easier and faster than rebooting.

And your point about games is taken. It is a weak spot, especially for folks who, unlike me, aren't still playing the original Legend of Zelda (which actually looks pretty sweet on a computer monitor as opposed to the way it looked on television).

But aside from games, it still seems that we're not talking about compatibility or even availability anymore. Now it's about price. Without a doubt, Mac software usually does carry a cost, sometimes a high cost. But that's what life in a fringe market is like. But I think we both knew that going in.

Full disclosure: I keep copies of Windows and Linux on my Mac as well, although unless I'm testing web pages I rarely have occasion to boot them -- and I touch just about every type of software, from office programs to creative suites, 3D animation, CAD, DVD ripping, burning, file converting, and other stuff I can't mention on the board.

Hell, the last thing I needed to figure out was how to play old movies using IV41 and IV50 codecs on OSX (which countless search results on Google still indicate is impossible without emulating OS9).
 
Removing the ExpressCard slot is pure engineering laziness. Pro feature my ass. Just about every P.O.S. laptop ever has a PCMCIA slot or modern equivalent... just like every other laptop ever has a removable battery. Sony fit a PCMCIA slot in their X505 five years ago and that laptop had a motherboard the size of a floppy disk.
 
Mr. B said:
Removing the ExpressCard slot is pure engineering laziness. Pro feature my ass. Just about every P.O.S. laptop ever has a PCMCIA slot or modern equivalent... just like every other laptop ever has a removable battery. Sony fit a PCMCIA slot in their X505 five years ago and that laptop had a motherboard the size of a floppy disk.
Click to expand...

or more likely it's a cost benefit analysis that tells Apple the demand for the Express slot isn't there to justify the cost of it's implantation especially when they want to sell the product at a particular price range.

Also Apple don't make the units themselves - they are OEM'd and it's possible that the company that makes them for Apple had dropped the Express slot from the board design.
 
J. Allen said:
The same can be said for DVD authoring freeware programs. Windows? I can name five right now, all spyware free. Mac? I can name two, and they are rather slow and clunky.
Click to expand...

There are free command-line Unix tools to do this. Most Mac freeware authoring just wraps a GUI around these anyway.
 
Spilio said:
You should give VMWare a shot. If you have enough RAM, it's a lot easier and faster than rebooting.

And your point about games is taken. It is a weak spot, especially for folks who, unlike me, aren't still playing the original Legend of Zelda (which actually looks pretty sweet on a computer monitor as opposed to the way it looked on television).

But aside from games, it still seems that we're not talking about compatibility or even availability anymore. Now it's about price. Without a doubt, Mac software usually does carry a cost, sometimes a high cost. But that's what life in a fringe market is like. But I think we both knew that going in.

Full disclosure: I keep copies of Windows and Linux on my Mac as well, although unless I'm testing web pages I rarely have occasion to boot them -- and I touch just about every type of software, from office programs to creative suites, 3D animation, CAD, DVD ripping, burning, file converting, and other stuff I can't mention on the board.

Hell, the last thing I needed to figure out was how to play old movies using IV41 and IV50 codecs on OSX (which countless search results on Google still indicate is impossible without emulating OS9).
Click to expand...

Yeah, we both knew it going in. I just wish there was a bit of a greater freeware selection for hobbyists who use Macs.

Lindley said:
J. Allen said:
The same can be said for DVD authoring freeware programs. Windows? I can name five right now, all spyware free. Mac? I can name two, and they are rather slow and clunky.
Click to expand...

There are free command-line Unix tools to do this. Most Mac freeware authoring just wraps a GUI around these anyway.
Click to expand...

That's true. Some are awfully slow though, I'm not sure why. In the time I can burn a DVD on my Windows partition, it takes my Mac partition three to five times longer for the exact same thing. It makes me scratch my head.

J.
 
Mr. B said:
Removing the ExpressCard slot is pure engineering laziness. Pro feature my ass. Just about every P.O.S. laptop ever has a PCMCIA slot or modern equivalent... just like every other laptop ever has a removable battery. Sony fit a PCMCIA slot in their X505 five years ago and that laptop had a motherboard the size of a floppy disk.
Click to expand...

Read the article here

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3580

And tell me whether Apple engage in engineering laziness.
 
I don't see how their choice to use Lithium polymer batteries instead of 18650 cells refutes or even directly relates to my point. Are we to consider the use of square (cuboid) objects in a square space some sort of heretofore unseen brilliance?
 
the only thing I use my PCMCIA slot for on my powerbook is for my SD card reader so...it's all good as far as I'm concerned.

better actually, since my card reader doesn't support SDHC.
 
Mr. B said:
I don't see how their choice to use Lithium polymer batteries instead of 18650 cells refutes or even directly relates to my point. Are we to consider the use of square (cuboid) objects in a square space some sort of heretofore unseen brilliance?
Click to expand...

No the point is that apple have provided users with something that every user is going to want very long battery life) over something that very if any would make use of (express slot).
 
Marc said:
No the point is that apple have provided users with something that every user is going to want very long battery life) over something that very if any would make use of (express slot).
Click to expand...
I don't get it, the article was about more efficient use of space. They saved room by not using cylindrical batteries. More room should mean fewer compromises.
 
Marc said:
Mr. B said:
I don't see how their choice to use Lithium polymer batteries instead of 18650 cells refutes or even directly relates to my point. Are we to consider the use of square (cuboid) objects in a square space some sort of heretofore unseen brilliance?
Click to expand...

No the point is that apple have provided users with something that every user is going to want very long battery life) over something that very if any would make use of (express slot).
Click to expand...

Er, but the two things are totally unrelated. It's not like they took out the express slot to increase battery life.

It isn't engineering laziness either though... they took it out and replaced it with something else, the SD slot. Certainly I don't know if the case they made for it (based on Express slot usage) is valid or not but as it would have actually taken effort to do and would have been less effort to leave it alone then it's hardly lazy.
 
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