First Federation

[Dukhat]

I'd mentioned this in the past, but it's worth bringing up again since it's on-topic.

IMHO, as far as TOS only is concerned, my theory is that the "First Federation" never actually existed. It was a made-up organization just like the fake Balok puppet and the presumably fake outer shell of the Fesarius. The truth was that Clint Howard-Balok (or others of his kind) set up these elaborate ruses simply to test how aliens reacted to a seemingly more powerful force when in reality that was not the case.

The fact that we never hear from the "First Federation" again possibly backs up the theory.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ So who would you suggest Balok really is, then?

 

[Dukhat]

^ So who would you suggest Balok really is, then?

I think it was stated in the episode that he was just a representative of his people, who were testing alien races to determine if they were a threat to them. The whole point of having Balok actually being a pint-sized toddler instead of the menacing alien statue underscores the seemingly-strong-versus-seemingly weak juxtaposition.

 

[Lonemagpie]

There was a never published Star Wars novel in the works once that would have tied Earth's future to Star Wars. It had humans from 25th century earth thrown back in time to the galaxy far far away. The novel, Alien Exodus, isn't canon but some fan fic uses it to explain the origins of Star Wars.

I've heard of that. I wish it was written, I liked the outline very much.

Urgh, fuck no - based on the outline, we dodged a bullet there.

 

[Thestral]

They're Firsts from Firstia.

Friends of the Thicks, from Thicktown, Thickania.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ So who would you suggest Balok really is, then?

Undercover Ferengi.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Well, that's the concept behind, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far way. Isn't it? A parallel universe.

I don't think that Star Wars was supposed to be a parallel universe, no. I think it was literally supposed to be in the distant past in a distant galaxy.

Some of the fan speculation out there has the Andromeda Galaxy being home to the Galactic Republic, with and Mudd's androids and the Kelvans being outlying powers.

 

[rfmcdpei]

There was a never published Star Wars novel in the works once that would have tied Earth's future to Star Wars. It had humans from 25th century earth thrown back in time to the galaxy far far away. The novel, Alien Exodus, isn't canon but some fan fic uses it to explain the origins of Star Wars.

I've heard of that. I wish it was written, I liked the outline very much.

Urgh, fuck no - based on the outline, we dodged a bullet there.

Speaking as a Canadian, I'd like to say that I'm so sorry about Robert Sawyer.

Yes, Alien Exodus would have been wretched.

Just be thankful that Sawyer's proposed Trek novel Armada never came off. Be very, very thankful.

(And curiously enough, bringing things back full circle, in Armada Sawyer would have killed the First Federation off in passing.)

 

[xortex]

Balok's too smart to be killed. He comes from the Star Wars universe anyway.

 

[Thrawn]

I turned the Ligeti off (it was actually Berlioz's Symphony Phantastique), but how do you get alternate realities again, you know the ones where Ulysses S. Grant is a dinosaur? In relationship to a (temporal) schism? If the Star Wars analogy takes place in our universe, then the First Federation can be part of the Star Wars universe, sort of revisiting us. But you're saying it can't be an alternate reality or universe, dare I say it again, which seems synonymous with history as in 'Mirror, Mirror'. This is where Star Trek gets devoured by Star Wars and Kirk has to go way back in time to kill Harrison Ford. It gets complicated from here. Cris, are you still there. I lost myself at temporal schism.

I never have any idea what the hell you are trying to say.

 

[xortex]

Wouldn't it be odd if the Federation was on offshoot or alternate reality of the First Federation which is fighting for dominance with a different Captain Kirk and Enterprise, etc. sort of a merging of twin realities where everything is different in the other reality. I.e., the only thing that is not a parallel reality is Earth.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, that's the concept behind, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far way. Isn't it? A parallel universe.

I don't think that Star Wars was supposed to be a parallel universe, no. I think it was literally supposed to be in the distant past in a distant galaxy.

Some of the fan speculation out there has the Andromeda Galaxy being home to the Galactic Republic, with and Mudd's androids and the Kelvans being outlying powers.

And human beings just happen to turn up in that galaxy, on their own, exactly like humans of Earth? I think I buy Alien Exodus over that.

 

[xortex]

You've never seen a Klingon Wookie??

 

[JD]

Wouldn't it be odd if the Federation was on offshoot or alternate reality of the First Federation which fighting for dominance with a different Captain Kirk and Enterprise, etc. sort of a merging of twin realities where everything is different in the other. I.e., the only thing that is not an alternate reality becomes the Enterprise itself.

What?

 

[Sci]

I've heard of that. I wish it was written, I liked the outline very much.

Urgh, fuck no - based on the outline, we dodged a bullet there.

Speaking as a Canadian, I'd like to say that I'm so sorry about Robert Sawyer.

Whew! Harsh, that.

Personally, I think you have nothing to apologize for in Rob. Firstly, I rather like his novels -- Calculating God, in particular, is very good. And, secondly, I've met the man and got the chance to give him a personal tour of a prominent building I was interning at; he's a very nice, very smart, fun guy to get to know. He even signed my copy of Calculating God.

I'll concede that I'm not too impressed with the outline for his proposed Armada novel. I'll also point out that this was written over twenty-five years ago when he was much less further along in his writing career and his skill level. I'll also point out that I've yet to read anything of his that was actually published that was bad.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Just be thankful that Sawyer's proposed Trek novel Armada never came off. Be very, very thankful.

I just looked at the outline for that and all I can say is...

 

[rfmcdpei]

Personally, I think you have nothing to apologize for in Rob.

That was rude of me, decidedly unconstructive.

Firstly, I rather like his novels -- Calculating God, in particular, is very good. And, secondly, I've met the man and got the chance to give him a personal tour of a prominent building I was interning at; he's a very nice, very smart, fun guy to get to know. He even signed my copy of Calculating God.

Calculating God is good, and I don't begrudge him his success, but I find that his novels are more novels of ideas than novels with characterization, and the working-in of Toronto into everything a bit much. I mean, I love the city and all, but there can be too much sometimes.

I'll concede that I'm not too impressed with the outline for his proposed Armada novel. I'll also point out that this was written over twenty-five years ago when he was much less further along in his writing career and his skill level. I'll also point out that I've yet to read anything of his that was actually published that was bad.

A bit of a different evaluation here, but I do get your point.

 

[Sci]

Personally, I think you have nothing to apologize for in Rob.

That was rude of me, decidedly unconstructive.

Firstly, I rather like his novels -- Calculating God, in particular, is very good. And, secondly, I've met the man and got the chance to give him a personal tour of a prominent building I was interning at; he's a very nice, very smart, fun guy to get to know. He even signed my copy of Calculating God.

Calculating God is good, and I don't begrudge him his success, but I find that his novels are more novels of ideas than novels with characterization, and the working-in of Toronto into everything a bit much. I mean, I love the city and all, but there can be too much sometimes.

Fair enough, then. Personally, I find the characterizations in his novels to be quite good (and certainly more vivid than, say, Asimov's), but if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. And I'd probably be more irritated about the Toronto thing, except that I find it refreshing to see someone willing to be so unabashedly pro-Canadian in everything he writes -- I'm used to that sort of patriotism from American authors, and I think it's nice to see it from our neighbor to the North. As the grandson of a Canadian, I think Canada has a lot to be proud of but that Canadians often don't toot their own horn enough.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Just be thankful that Sawyer's proposed Trek novel Armada never came off. Be very, very thankful.

(And curiously enough, bringing things back full circle, in Armada Sawyer would have killed the First Federation off in passing.)

It had Arex in it...

 

[ToddCam]

It had Arex in it...

He does make everything better. Even mediocre New Frontier stories.