First Contact-era uniform mod

[Data Holmes]

YES.

 

[MarianLH]

I voted for man-skirts, because, well, kilts are the hotness. But in all seriously, speaking as someone with firsthand experience, skirts are less practical for physically active tasks, especially tight skirts like this that restrict the leg movement. Sure, the USN does it, but the USN is an appallingly sexist instition with a history of harrassment scandals, of which Tailhook is only the most infamous.

Of course, I imagine pants that let a guy's goodies hang out (a la TMP) are not very practical either. Fun, but not practical.


Marian

 

[EmperorKalan]

Remember the "skant"?
http://images.wikia.com/memoryalpha/en/images/e/ee/Man_in_a_skant.jpg

(Not to mention Scotty's dress-kilt?)

There's room for a lot of variations.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

This is assuming there will never be any Ferengi women in Starfleet, right?

Cultural sensitivity dictates that, just as Worf was permitted to wear a Klingon sash, Ferengi women will wear no clothing at all.

 

[Patrickivan]

I recently saw a clip of a North Korean military parade, where women were marching with guns, wearing skirts and yellow stockings.

I am ashamed to admit that I found it to be a little hot...

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Sure, the USN does it, but the USN is an appallingly sexist instition with a history of harrassment scandals, of which Tailhook is only the most infamous.

The thing to keep in mind is that the uniform skirts in the USN (and the other branches of the military) are optional. Female personnel choose to wear them. Otherwise they wear pants like everyone else. I really don't see how that is sexist.

 

[MarianLH]

Fair point. They're still impractical, though. Changing clothes for a landing party is fine when things are going according to plan, but what about when the ship is being boarded by Klingons or runs into cosmic silly string?

On the other hand, they'd be fine for a desk job in San Francisco or something.


Marian

 

[Galactus]

I am sorry but aren't women's clothes mostly designed by men and always have been. I am sorry but I know from personal experience that the business women you are referring to think exactly like men. They would go to a strip club with their colleagues and get a lap dance.

This debate is always funny. So women think it is liberating to walk around in basically a thong and others think it is demeaning. Someone needs to decide if men and women are equal and the same or not, then these debates can come to a end.

 

[Patrickivan]

Back to the thread...

 

[Admiral2]

As you should - though I don't think you're the only one who voted "No," only the one who stated it.

I was going by the number of poll votes. At the time I was the only one who entered a "No, you male chauvinist pig..." vote, and I see I still am.

Who says it's deliberately titillating?

Anyone who knows the difference between a knee-length skirt, a full length skirt and a mini-skirt. The first two weren't designed to show as much as possible without getting the wearer arrested.

Let's face it, slacks can be titillating, too,

If they're leggings, which would only qualify as uniform pants if they were worn by cheerleaders in a cold weather climate, or if they're skin-tight jeans or capris (again, styles not usually associated with uniforms).

as are diapers, to some.

And I defy you to name any government organization that would have the stones to make a uniform out of a diaper.

And Starfleet is not a military organization, only quasi-military, with an emphasis more on science and diplomacy than on military or police operations; at least, that's what they keep telling us.

Yes, they keep telling us this utter nonsense, but if Starfleet weren't a military organization, It would be NASA. Don't hand me that.

The U.S. military, particularly the Navy, upon which Starfleet's paramilitary structure is based, does indeed have separate dress/service uniforms for men and women, and the women's uniforms include a skirt. This also applies to the army and air force, and, I suspect, is not uncommon in several military organizations the world over.

Exactly my point. Starfleet is supposed to be better than present day organizations in terms of equality.

As for the race card, I'm surprised and, frankly, a bit disappointed that we felt the need to go there. It was irrelevant to this discussion, at best.

The hell it is. The go-go skirt uniform was a design created based on the appearance of the intended wearers - namely hot TV chicks - and most prejudice against blacks - and other non-whites - throughout history has been based mostly on their appearance. How is it irrelevant?

I wouldn't call that skirt Ally McBeal

It's just as unnecessary.

 

[Ptrope]

I really don't want to participate in/indulge an argument, especially since this is an art forum and not TNZ, but I think it's important that we don't confuse opinion with fact ...

Who says it's deliberately titillating?

Anyone who knows the difference between a knee-length skirt, a full length skirt and a mini-skirt. The first two weren't designed to show as much as possible without getting the wearer arrested.

Wrong. There was a time when the sight of an ankle alone was enough to scandalize society, let alone a calf, a knee or a thigh. Titillation is primarily in the mind of the beholder, and even though designers certainly cater to and even exploit that very human response, it all comes down to the eye of the beholder. A piece of clothing is not, automatically and by itself, titillating to the average person. Which brings us to ...

Let's face it, slacks can be titillating, too,

If they're leggings, which would only qualify as uniform pants if they were worn by cheerleaders in a cold weather climate, or if they're skin-tight jeans or capris (again, styles not usually associated with uniforms).

Again, opinion, not fact. Personally, I've seen many women in contemporary, conservative slacks who raised my flag, who might not have but for the way that one piece of clothing worked with their bodies. Frankly, that often does more for me than your leggings, skin-tight jeans or capris (the last of which I've rarely seen as titillating or even attractive!)

And I defy you to name any government organization that would have the stones to make a uniform out of a diaper.

Oh, now, c'mon, I didn't even imply such a stupid thing - I was just mentioning that different and widely-varied articles of clothing can all be titillating to the right (wrong? ) person - I never implied that any military or corporate organization would be that stupid.

Starfleet is supposed to be better than present day organizations in terms of equality.

Once again, you confuse equality with conformity. Who dreamed up that bit of nonsense? I consider women to be my equals - and often my superiors - in many things, but why does that mean that they and I have to wear the same clothes to signify this? Worse, that people seem to think it's not sexist to demonstrate "equality" by putting everyone in men's clothes! That's where the real sexism lies.

The go-go skirt uniform was a design created based on the appearance of the intended wearers - namely hot TV chicks - and most prejudice against blacks - and other non-whites - throughout history has been based mostly on their appearance. How is it irrelevant?

Because the oppression of an entire group of people is a lot more severe than thinking, "You know, that woman looks good in a skirt." If you think that's sexist, then don't bother to take any time picking out your own clothes by fashion, don't use deodorant, don't get your hair cut - if you think that a person's appearance isn't important to that person, then don't do anything about your own personal appearance. I think you'll find that isn't the case. Designers create and sell clothing for one primary reason: to make the buyer attractive, in the buyer's own eyes. It's not about putting that person on display and objectifying her - or him - but about giving the buyer one more weapon in the arsenal of social interaction. I don't know any women who consciously ask the men around them in the store if they look sexy in the clothes they are thinking of buying, but that is a major factor in the purchase for both men and women: Will I look attractive in this? Whether it's a skirt, slacks, a suit, a silk tie or Italian shoes. If it's sexist, it's personally so, a decision to appeal to the beholder, be he the opposite or same sex.

I guess in all that rant, the one thing that stands out to me, and bears repeating, IMO, is why is it not sexist to expect women to dress like men in order to be considered "equals," to demonstrate that we've gotten "better" about anything? I didn't realize I was going to open a can of worms when I posted a simple picture (though given where we are, how could I really have expected anything else? ), but it has made me a little more aware of the issues, and the cognitive dissonance that exists when it comes to "equality." In a "more progressive" society, I would hope that they would come to this conclusion and offer the genders the choice, rather than "equalizing" them arbitrarily as 'men.'

 

[ancient]

A woman wearing a skirt?! How UNUSUAL!!!

Seriously, I see no real reason why a woman shouldn't wear a skirt on a starship/starbase/station. It's not like every single person is on the away-team list or has to crawl around in the jefferies tubes. And I am also pro-kilt. Real men can wear kilts.

I say, in the future we probably won't be quite as Victorian in our dress codes.

Plus...OMG...LEGS!!!!