Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate...

[DostoyevskyClone]

I was one of the devout when it came to TNG for years. I reluctantly got into DS9 on DVD and found it to be just as good as TNG, if not a little bit better. Over the years, I've heard people criticizing Voyager but once I was done with watching DS9 on DVD, I craved more Trek and started Voyager.

I just don't get it. Season 1 was *solid* (especially as debut seasons go). Season 2 was better. Season 3 was even better than 2 and in the upper half of all Trek seasons for me.

Where do you rank seasons 4-7 compared to season 1-3? Is there a drop-off in quality or do some people just not know what they're talking about?

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

Now, knowing that the crew does not get home until the end helps.

Myself personally, I just got tired of the "bait-and-switch" involving all of those "almost home episodes" that was pulled on us for 7 years straight.

Any number of times, whether it be through Q, a Borg transwarp conduit, or dumb luck like the Ferengi Barzan wormhole could have gotten our heroes home.

But, nope. VOY kept employing that carrot on a stick apporach several episodes a season (during "sweeps," season finales, etc.) that I got sick of them dangling that carrot in front of us and pulling it away each and every single time.

"Threshold" was the biggest insult, and up to that point I watched every single episode, but after the airing of that insulting episode I only vowed to watch this show periodically.

It's fine that you can breeze through it on DVD, but it was excruciating tuning into this each and every single week for 7 years straight. I am glad UPN was done with this show and ENT and decided to pack it in and make way for J.J. Abrams's Star Trek (2009).

Good riddance for trying to insult viewer intelligence with those relenishable shuttles and the captain and crew all of a sudden getting dumb or "overly righteous" when they had the opportunity to get home much faster. The future Janeway should have just time traveled to the Badlands in "Caretaker" and rescued Janeway from this mess in the first place, and showed her "The Big Picture" and snapped some sense into her younger self to not get lost in the first place than arbitrarily choosing a present time period to travel back to in "Endgame."

 

[Boy Wonder]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

I can just feel the love emanating from you Will.

Riker, you make it out like that carrot was perpetually in front of their noses all the time. It was used less than a dozen times, over 150 episodes, that isn't too bad. Not great, but it doesn't diminish from the quality.

To the OP, I think Voyager hit its peak in seasons 3, 4 & 5. Season 6 felt very haphazard. It tried to concentrate more of an ensemble cast, but the level of quality stories were lacking. I still enjoyed it though, due to Seven. Fair Heaven and Spirit Folk were awful, and the tone was very different. To me the tone was when Star Trek decided to turn simplistic and have action sequences over meaningful dialogue right up until the cancellation of Enterprise with a few exceptions.

Season 7 was a vast improvement, however if you are not a fan of love stories, romances or less science fiction, then it probably is not the season for you. I really enjoyed most of season 7, it had more of a balance of the cast in stories that worked and tried to make something out of the characters.

 

[Claudia]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

I think season 3 and 4 are the best VOY had to offer. Then, unfortunately, the show started to focus even more on 2 or more characters (Janeway, Seven, with a little EMH and B'Elanna in between), and Janeway's decisions got a bit more irrational and random. There are stunningly good episodes in later seasons, but the overall quality seems lacking a bit (especially compared to quality of TNG or DS9's later seasons). And the focus on the Borg didn't really help, either...

And yes, "Threshold" was one of the more ridiculous episodes - but then, every ST-series has episodes like that... and we still kept tuning in every week.

 

[Evil_Kirkneivel]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

I had been a TOS and TNG fan, then didn't watch any Trek for about 8 years. Voyager was my entry back in, and, like you (the OP), I thought seasons 1 through 3 were very good and getting better. In fact, for me, Voyager continued to be entertaining right through to the middle of season 6. Then, episodes (like Spirit Folk, for example) became contrived and manipulative just for the sake of trying to entertain. The characters were ruined by scripts that changed their personalities for the sake of the plot (I could name many examples, but Virtuoso comes to mind first). Sure, some of these episodes are still entertaining...they just felt 'untrue' to me. In season 7, there are still some good episodes, but many others are gimmicky, with a feeling that the cast (and especially the writers) are on auto-pilot, with no real passion for the characters. And, finally, there is the awful finale, Endgame, which is rushed, insulting to my intelligence, and bears no relation to anything that has gone before.

I think the decline in the last couple of seasons really hurt the way I felt about Voyager, because I loved it so much, and still feel that many of the earlier episodes are the best that Trek has produced in terms of plot, characters, and effects.

OP, I'll be interested in your opinion when you finish your viewing!

 

[Jeri]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

DostoyevskyClone, great to hear you are enjoying the show; I always loved it. I thoroughly enjoy seasons 4-7; and I hope you do, too. (I have all of Trek on DVD and started watching in 1966.) I'm excited for you!

 

[voyagerfan]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

I'm also going over missed episodes thanks to virgin 1 here in the UK and I always feel, (We have year of hell coming up tomorrow!) that the storylines reflect that of the predicament they are in. After 6-7 years, wouldn't you be doing the same through desperation?

I must be on series 4 at the moment and I am still enjoying it. Theshold is a bit odd to me in regards of the later episode regarding the evolved dino species. But that does occur in shows like this,

 

[jgdst]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

^ Yup, season 4. I've been looking forward to Year of Hell all month (despite the bloody great reset button of doom)!

After just finishing season 3 in the last week or so, I'm not sure it is as good as I remember... there were some shockers in there - Remember, Rise, Displaced come to mind.

I think season 2 was possibly their best season with a view to the series as a whole - it had recurring and evolving plotlines (through Seska, Jonas and the Kazon), and seemed to have a stronger continuity between episodes than later seasons.

For individual episodes, seasons 4 and 5 have the majority of standout stories I think. At the time, I think Brannon Braga did wonders for the show when he took the reins in season 5. Equinox is without a doubt one of the strongest episodes of the series (that doesn't rely on any reset buttons!).

Seasons 6 and 7 are pretty poor I think. I didn't realise it at the time, I just thought "meh, that's not so bad... should be some big explosions next week though...". Instead there were some pretty infuriating stories. Survival Instinct for instance - THERE'S A BAJORAN IN THE DELTA QUADRANT, WHY DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S ODD?!

Fair Haven and Spirit Folk were just "ugh". I didn't like Muse or Tsunkatse and I've never really been sure what The Haunting of Deck Twelve was actually about - pink smoke as I recall. Unimatrix Zero marked the point for me I'd officially had enough of the Borg (being 16 at the time, this was a very mature opinion for me to make ).

Season 7 was just shots in the dark at stories... we had at least 4 stories about holographic rights or other jiggery pokery involving the Doctor, two about Seven's "development", Workforce (which lent nothing to the series and didn't need a two-parter), and then you have Endgame. Also, I felt Ethan Phillips got really short shrift all season. In its defence, you have The Void.

As someone's said above, the characterisation wasn't consistent, there were too many stories that just didn't work, or were kind of pointless, too many themes were done to death. The thing I enjoyed the least was characters being sidelined just to keep up the Janeway/Seven/EMH dynamic.

After Equinox part II, I think the show very, very quickly loses its way, and I think that's where a lot of the hate comes from.

 

[kimc]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

Where do you rank seasons 4-7 compared to season 1-3? Is there a drop-off in quality or do some people just not know what they're talking about?

There are many who believe that the best is ahead of you. Others like myself have a special fondness for the earlier seasons. With the exception of the final half of Season 7 it's all good in my opinion.

 

[voyagerfan]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

I have series link LOL

 

[snuffles]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

Season 3 is great.. just wait....

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

Now, knowing that the crew does not get home until the end helps.

Myself personally, I just got tired of the "bait-and-switch" involving all of those "almost home episodes" that was pulled on us for 7 years straight.

Any number of times, whether it be through Q, a Borg transwarp conduit, or dumb luck like the Ferengi Barzan wormhole could have gotten our heroes home.

But, nope. VOY kept employing that carrot on a stick apporach several episodes a season (during "sweeps," season finales, etc.) that I got sick of them dangling that carrot in front of us and pulling it away each and every single time.

"Threshold" was the biggest insult, and up to that point I watched every single episode, but after the airing of that insulting episode I only vowed to watch this show periodically.

It's fine that you can breeze through it on DVD, but it was excruciating tuning into this each and every single week for 7 years straight. I am glad UPN was done with this show and ENT and decided to pack it in and make way for J.J. Abrams's Star Trek (2009).

Good riddance for trying to insult viewer intelligence with those relenishable shuttles and the captain and crew all of a sudden getting dumb or "overly righteous" when they had the opportunity to get home much faster. The future Janeway should have just time traveled to the Badlands in "Caretaker" and rescued Janeway from this mess in the first place, and showed her "The Big Picture" and snapped some sense into her younger self to not get lost in the first place than arbitrarily choosing a present time period to travel back to in "Endgame."

jeez, way to spoil the storylines for the guy. he hasn't seen S4-7, you know. he asked opinions, not how the show ended

 

[Lynx]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

Season 1-3 are better than season 4-7 because in seasons 1-3 ALL main characters got their piece of the action while in seasons 4-7 the focus was on three characters where the other were shoved aside.

Besides that, a great character is missing in seasons 4-7 and the stories are not so good as in seasons 1-3.

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

Season 4 and 5 are okay, I'd say.

Season 7 is poop.

 

[Johnhead99]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

Where do you rank seasons 4-7 compared to season 1-3? Is there a drop-off in quality or do some people just not know what they're talking about?

There are many who believe that the best is ahead of you. Others like myself have a special fondness for the earlier seasons. With the exception of the final half of Season 7 it's all good in my opinion.

I like to think Seasons 3, 4, and 5 are the best of Voyager. 6 and 7 were ok and seasons 1 and 2 were slow.

Voyager will always be my favorite, but I just finished DS9 series a month or so ago, and I found that way better now than when I watched it live.

 

[Akiraprise]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

My biggest problem with DS9 back in the day was being able to watch it. It's part of the reason why I never got into it as much as VOY. DS9 was preempted for basketball games a good portion of the time. Probably over 50% of the time. So I kind of quit watching it. Especially once the war got going and I was missing important episodes.

 

[RAMA]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

My biggest problem with DS9 back in the day was being able to watch it. It's part of the reason why I never got into it as much as VOY. DS9 was preempted for basketball games a good portion of the time. Probably over 50% of the time. So I kind of quit watching it. Especially once the war got going and I was missing important episodes.

I would say season 3-5 are the best.

 

[Akiraprise]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

My biggest problem with DS9 back in the day was being able to watch it. It's part of the reason why I never got into it as much as VOY. DS9 was preempted for basketball games a good portion of the time. Probably over 50% of the time. So I kind of quit watching it. Especially once the war got going and I was missing important episodes.

I would say season 3-5 are the best.

I agree. I never got to watch DS9 all the way through until Spike started airing the show.

 

[Lynx]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

My biggest problem with DS9 back in the day was being able to watch it. It's part of the reason why I never got into it as much as VOY. DS9 was preempted for basketball games a good portion of the time. Probably over 50% of the time. So I kind of quit watching it. Especially once the war got going and I was missing important episodes.

In the country where I live, the channel which started to air DS9 canceled it after one season and no other of "my" channels did air it either so the only thing I've seen of it after season 1 are occasional episodes on tapes I've borrowed.

I guess that I just have to buy the series on DVD in order to watch it from beginning to end and see what it's really like.

 

[crouteru]

Re: Finished season 3 on DVD - scratching my head at the Voyager hate.

It's surprising to hear all these broadcast difficulties in various parts of the US. In the UK, we got Voyager and DS9 in their entirety twice, once on satellite channel Sky One and then again a few months later on terrestrial channel BBC 2. Each has then been repeated numerous times on Sky One and now on Virgin 1.

Personally, I always liked Voyager. I never really understood all the hatred towards it. Sure it's flawed and ignores some of the more obvious elements of it's premise, but I can always say I was entertained by each and every episode, whether it was superb or awful, over the seven seasons. If you liked the first three seasons, then you'll like remaining four.