Finally Watching Discovery - Was I Supoosed to Hate This?

[Gonzo]

So, thanks to Blu Ray I am finally watching Discovery. I tried hard to avoid spoilers for the last year or so, but have been aware of all the screaming and gnashing going on here abouts and elsewhere.

Anyways, I'm four episodes in and I'm liking it. Okay, not the best Trek ever - that's still DS9. But, it ain't the worst Trek I've ever seen neither - that's still most of Voyager. But, I've been watching Trek for about 50 years now and have gotten used to having some ups and downs along the way.

Admitted, it's got a different look than I'd expect for a prequel to TOS - but it could sort of follow the look established in Enterprise. Not a big fan of the blingy uniforms, or the yet-another-Klingon-redesign. But those things aside, I'm finding myself entertained and interested to see more. And am loving some of these new characters - especially Tilly and Stamets. And Dog Jones is doing some really interesting stuff with Saru.

Gotta say I'm not entirely sure what all the fuss has been the past year or so, guys. Yeah, it's dong some stuff in a sorta new way, but it still looks like Trek to me.

I was able to watch it fine, there were elements which didn't seem to have been thought through properly and quite a few visual changes were made to the Klingons and their ships which quite frankly were unnecessary and harmed immersion, the excessive use of Klingon language was not good either.

Most of these problems were mostly introduced in the two part pilot episode which could have been so much more than it ended up as, after that it wasn't too bad bad with just some out of place technologies which just made me laugh out loud rather than bother me.

From what I have heard it seems many of the visual issues are going to be rectified or explained away in the upcoming season, the producers have said that these changes were planned all along but that sounds like bullshit to me and I think they have made some big changes behind the scenes to try and salvage the show which hasn't been getting the viewing numbers CBS was expecting, plus funding issues due to Netflix refusing to pay for the whole thing again.

I have also heard that their are some worrying meetings going on in the background about the direction the new season has taken, whether that indicates that early views of the season have been poorly received remains to be seen, I have no doubt this upcoming series will be make or break for Discovery and that will have a big effect on the success or failure of CBS all access platform.

I know that some are really not happy with the new Spock either, CBS is very nervous about the shows new season and a failure would be seriously embarrassing.

 

[Rahul]

From what I have heard it seems many of the visual issues are going to be rectified or explained away in the upcoming season, the producers have said that these changes were planned all along but that sounds like bullshit to me and I think they have made some big changes behind the scenes to try and salvage the show

I agree 100%, this much is really obvious just by looking at the changes for season 2.

which hasn't been getting the viewing numbers CBS was expecting, plus funding issues due to Netflix refusing to pay for the whole thing again.

I have also heard that their are some worrying meetings going on in the background about the direction the new season has taken, whether that indicates that early views of the season have been poorly received remains to be seen, I have no doubt this upcoming series will be make or break for Discovery and that will have a big effect on the success or failure of CBS all access platform.

I know that some are really not happy with the new Spock either, CBS is very nervous about the shows new season and a failure would be seriously embarrassing.

This part though, I'd be sceptical, that sounds more like unsubstantiated rumor by people with an agenda. We simply don't know the viewing numbers of DIS, they are not public.

What we DO know, is that CBS All Access has around ~2.5 mio. subscribers currently (source: https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/tca-2018-cbs-all-access-has-2-5-million-subscribers). Which is not significantly more than before they had Discovery (like, +0.5 mio.), and a faaaar cry away from their goal to reach 8 mio. subscribers in the next four years. And it looks as if they will miss this goal by a mile - especially since the competition is not going to be easier as soon as Disney+ starts their streaming service.

Also, it's way, way less viewers than any other Trek show had ever before (ENT started with ~ 6 mio. viewers on average, and got cancelled at ~2.9 mio. average) - and I highly doubt everyone of the 2.5 mio. All Access subscribers is there for Discovery.

What we DO know, is that they think Trekkies are a valuable audience: No way they would otherwise start to commision 5 new Trek series! That suggests the subscribers numbers climbed significantly because of DIS, and hell, since these people pay directly and not through advertisement, the show (or at least their projected viewers once they have Trek on all around the year) might actually be enough to make the whole streaming endeavour profitable.

We will see what the future brings - but DIS is not going to be cancelled alone at this point: Either CBS All Access goes down entiretly (and that can happen even if DIS was highly successfull), or it stays as long as they try to hold their foot in the streaming market. We'll see.

 

[Gonzo]

I agree 100%, this much is really obvious just by looking at the changes for season 2.



This part though, I'd be sceptical, that sounds more like unsubstantiated rumor by people with an agenda. We simply don't know the viewing numbers of DIS, they are not public.

What we DO know, is that CBS All Access has around ~2.5 mio. subscribers currently (source: https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/tca-2018-cbs-all-access-has-2-5-million-subscribers). Which is not significantly more than before they had Discovery (like, +0.5 mio.), and a faaaar cry away from their goal to reach 8 mio. subscribers in the next four years. And it looks as if they will miss this goal by a mile - especially since the competition is not going to be easier as soon as Disney+ starts their streaming service.

Also, it's way, way less viewers than any other Trek show had ever before (ENT started with ~ 6mio. viewers on average, and got cancelled at ~2.9 mio. average) - and I highly doubt everyone of the 2.5 mio. All Access subscribers is there for Discovery.

What we DO know, is that they think Trekkies are a valuable audience: No way they would otherwise start to commision 5 new Trek series! That suggests the subscribers numbers climbed significantly because of DIS, and hell, since these people pay directly and not through advertisement, the show (or at least their projected viewers once they have Trek on all around the year) might actually be enough to make the whole streaming endeavour profitable.

We will see what the future brings - but DIS is not going to be cancelled alone at this point: Either CBS All Access goes down entiretly (and that can happen even if DIS was highly successfull), or it stays as long as they try to hold their foot in the streaming market. We'll see.

Netflix paid so much for each episode of the first season that it covered pretty much the whole budget and you can see it in the episodes, the problem is there hasn't been as much interest from other countries in the show as CBS expected and we are all aware how it hasn't been as big a hit as they hoped either, so CBS filmed those short stories during the filming of season one hoping Netflix would pay again for them even though they had paid for the first season already (bloody cheeky if you ask me), which of course was never going to happen as Netflix isn't stupid.

For the second season Netflix have been playing hard ball which means CBS has had to cough up the money to make the episodes or cancel the series which they don't dare do as its supposed to be one of the big draws for CBS All Access, that's why the budget was cut for the second season and why CBS has been offering the short stories around but no one wants them.

Don't get me wrong I am ok with the show as I have said before and hopeful it can be stabilised, even so there are some really big hurdles to clear for that to happen, the ratings are a big one now that Netflix isn't writing blank cheques for the production and CBS has to find the budget itself.

The number of subscribers are important but the number of them that actually watch the show is what CBS execs are looking closely at, especially as its so easy for subscribers to just cancel their sub when the show finishes each season, that is why CBS are looking at having other Star Trek series like the proposed new one with Patrick Stewart so that they can have a Star Trek show running all year round on All Access.

If they can stabilise the viewing figures they can then accelerate the plot in Discovery and end the series once they have alternatives to continue on with that are more palatable and/or sellable to other streaming services like Netflix, that's why they have decided to create a new show and bring Picard back as they see anything connected to the TNG>> timeline to be a safe bet.

I suspect that Discovery is just going to be one of those shows that will always have problems behind the scenes.

 

[XCV330]

Netflix paid so much for each episode of the first season that it covered pretty much the whole budget and you can see it in the episodes, the problem is there hasn't been as much interest from other countries in the show as CBS expected and we are all aware how it hasn't been as big a hit as they hoped either, so CBS filmed those short stories during the filming of season one hoping Netflix would pay again for them even though they had paid for the first season already (bloody cheeky if you ask me), which of course was never going to happen as Netflix isn't stupid..

1: How do you know there hasn't been?
2: I was not aware we were all aware of that. Your source for this?
3: How do you know Netflix was on CBS's mind when they made the shorts?

Please let me know where you get these facts

 

[tomswift2002]

C'mon. Dragging Trek through the mud? Because of swearing?

Sorry, but f-bombs are on a different level than what’s been heard before, and it’s a level that really pulls Trek into the mud.

With TNG, it’s like Shakespeare, whereas Discovery is like a cheap horror movie.

 

[Lord Garth]

No way, and you know why...because TNG...and Data.

Shit. You were right. Not that it was a surprise.

 

[Tuskin38]

Sorry, but f-bombs are on a different level than what’s been heard before

it really isnt

 

[Amaris]

"Goddamn irresponsible! ...playing games with lives." - Leonard "Bones" McCoy, Star Trek V

"Goddammit! Dammit! Dammit! Son of a-! Couldn't you have waited two seconds?! He was just about to tell us the whole thing!" - James T. Kirk, Star Trek VI

"Haven't you got any goddamn feelings about that?!" - James Kirk, Star Trek IV

 

[Reyman]

I agree 100%, this much is really obvious just by looking at the changes for season 2.



This part though, I'd be sceptical, that sounds more like unsubstantiated rumor by people with an agenda. We simply don't know the viewing numbers of DIS, they are not public.

What we DO know, is that CBS All Access has around ~2.5 mio. subscribers currently (source: https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/tca-2018-cbs-all-access-has-2-5-million-subscribers). Which is not significantly more than before they had Discovery (like, +0.5 mio.), and a faaaar cry away from their goal to reach 8 mio. subscribers in the next four years. And it looks as if they will miss this goal by a mile - especially since the competition is not going to be easier as soon as Disney+ starts their streaming service.

Also, it's way, way less viewers than any other Trek show had ever before (ENT started with ~ 6 mio. viewers on average, and got cancelled at ~2.9 mio. average) - and I highly doubt everyone of the 2.5 mio. All Access subscribers is there for Discovery.

What we DO know, is that they think Trekkies are a valuable audience: No way they would otherwise start to commision 5 new Trek series! That suggests the subscribers numbers climbed significantly because of DIS, and hell, since these people pay directly and not through advertisement, the show (or at least their projected viewers once they have Trek on all around the year) might actually be enough to make the whole streaming endeavour profitable.

We will see what the future brings - but DIS is not going to be cancelled alone at this point: Either CBS All Access goes down entiretly (and that can happen even if DIS was highly successfull), or it stays as long as they try to hold their foot in the streaming market. We'll see.

Disney+ and Warner Streaming launching next year will make life difficult for CBS all access. Not great news for the Trek franchise.

On the other hand with all the Disney and Warner content disappearing from Netflix, the Star Trek franchise will surely only increase in value for CBS when it comes Netflix.

5 new Trek shows you say. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Netflix who gave CBS the safety net to do it.

 

[Tuskin38]

Disney+ and Warner Streaming launching next year will make life difficult for CBS all access. Not great news for the Trek franchise.

I don't see how.

 

[Greg Cox]

Sorry, but f-bombs are on a different level than what’s been heard before, and it’s a level that really pulls Trek into the mud..

It's not mud. It's just dialogue, appropriate to that moment and character. As in real life, some people swear, some people don't, and a lot depends on where you are or who you're with. To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, dialogue is neither "clean" nor "muddy," just well-written or badly written.

Trust me, you put a bunch of STAR TREK writers together in a bar at a convention, they're not going to be talking like they would when speaking at the local grade school--especially if many of them are from New York.

 

[fireproof78]

Sorry, but f-bombs are on a different level than what’s been heard before, and it’s a level that really pulls Trek into the mud.

How? Thus far I haven't heard an explanation of how? Swearing isn't new to Star Trek, and far more common, if anachronistic, swear words were used a lot more often than a one off F-bomb. And that's just it-it's a one off. So, I don't understand how that "drags Trek through the mud."

I get that not everyone likes swearing or enjoys it, but one swear word doesn't drag anything in to the mud.

 

[Greg Cox]

Exactly. Last I heard, STAR TREK was not set in an "utopian" future when humanity has at long last conquered . . . profanity?

 

[jaime]

Exactly. Last I heard, STAR TREK was not set in an "utopian" future when humanity has at long last conquered . . . profanity?

Colourful Metaphors.

Between that and money, Star Trek IV is gonna unbalance a lot of arguments.

 

[eschaton]

I think the focus on profanity is a bit over-the-top. That said, I can't deny that I was personally exposed to Trek very early on in childhood. I'm not exactly sure when it goes back so far. But TNG came on when I was eight, and I was definitely watching TOS episodes before that. Thus by CBS deciding to not make new Trek "family friendly" they certainly are missing out on some audience members.

That said, there are less families these days in general. And given how a subscription-based show works versus on on the air, they don't actually make more money if one person is watching it alone on their laptop versus a whole family in front of a TV.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I doubt the future will ever do away with occasional "profanity." I do, however, believe that we will one day no longer use arbitrary moral standards as a societal baseline.

 

[Rahul]

What is weird, is how much criticism is because of the one word, considering how fucking tame it was!
Like, "fucking cool". And then it was even adressed as a slip-up! And Stamets "that is fucking cool" is really the best possible response. Like - this was probably the most family friendly use of the word "fuck" imaginable!

Again, it's weird that THIS is the focus of so much contention, in a show that features massive amounts of gore and close ups of forced surgery under pain and pornographic amounts of violence. Like - I can understand being upset at DIS not being family friendly overall. Bur focusing on this? A word? A fucking word? And it's not as if they dropped the n-bomb. It was just a fucking cute moment.

 

[jaime]

What is weird, is how much criticism is because of the one word, considering how fucking tame it was!
Like, "fucking cool". And then it was even adressed as a slip-up! And Stamets "that is fucking cool" is really the best possible response. Like - this was probably the most family friendly use of the word "fuck" imaginable!

Again, it's weird that THIS is the focus of so much contention, in a show that features massive amounts of gore and close ups of forced surgery under pain and pornographic amounts of violence. Like - I can understand being upset at DIS not being family friendly overall. Bur focusing on this? A word? A fucking word? And it's not as if they dropped the n-bomb. It was just a fucking cute moment.

They are both symptoms of the same thing. And I think it’s rare a person would be critical of the fuck, but let the gore slide.
It’s both the same ‘ooooh edgy’ and radical misunderstanding of the word ‘adult’ or ‘grown up’. Trek has always been ‘adult’ it just hasn’t always excluded the family audience. It has always pushed the envelope, but didn’t need to be ‘edgy’ like a fringe blowing teenager with their first punk fixation.
Ironically, some of the ‘defense’ against ‘haters’ (as opposed to argument with detractors, or criticism discussion) is in some ways a voice saying ‘nnngh you just don’t understand me’ before stropping off.
I sort of hope season two is enough of a fresh jumping on point and is family friendly enough that the under tens can watch the show again. I am not placing any bets though.

 

[feek61]

How? Thus far I haven't heard an explanation of how? Swearing isn't new to Star Trek, and far more common, if anachronistic, swear words were used a lot more often than a one off F-bomb. And that's just it-it's a one off. So, I don't understand how that "drags Trek through the mud."

I get that not everyone likes swearing or enjoys it, but one swear word doesn't drag anything in to the mud.

I really comes down to personal taste. To me (who swears a lot and uses the f-bomb daily), it's not needed in STD and does cheapens the show by making it a little lower class than I would like to see. For me it's one thing to have the f-bombs on a cop show or something like that but it is not really needed in Trek, IMO. It's just not very professional and the Starfleet crews are suppose to be consummate professionals according to GR.

 

[Rahul]

They are both symptoms of the same thing. And I think it’s rare a person would be critical of the fuck, but let the gore slide.
It’s both the same ‘ooooh edgy’ and radical misunderstanding of the word ‘adult’ or ‘grown up’. Trek has always been ‘adult’ it just hasn’t always excluded the family audience. It has always pushed the envelope, but didn’t need to be ‘edgy’ like a fringe blowing teenager with their first punk fixation.
Ironically, some of the ‘defense’ against ‘haters’ (as opposed to argument with detractors, or criticism discussion) is in some ways a voice saying ‘nnngh you just don’t understand me’ before stropping off.
I sort of hope season two is enough of a fresh jumping on point and is family friendly enough that the under tens can watch the show again. I am not placing any bets though.

But the thing is: "fucking cool" is so absolutely NOT "edgy" or "adult". Especially not in the dorky way it was presented. It was whimsical - at best. Like, waaay more tame than the one f-bomb every PG-13 movie is allowed to have.