Yeah, but the Cardassian War seems like the border skirmish the Klingon war needed to be to fit into the pre-TOS timeframe.
Finally Watching Discovery - Was I Supoosed to Hate This?
- Thread starter Mysterion
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Yeah, but the Cardassian War seems like the border skirmish the Klingon war needed to be to fit into the pre-TOS timeframe.
How many years after WW2 Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and West Germany signed Treaty of Paris which established European Coal and Steel Community? (hint in 1951) This treaty started the process of formal integration which ultimately led to the European Union. By your logic we Europeans must be more enlightened that people in 23rd century.
How many years after WW2 Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and West Germany signed Treaty of Paris which established European Coal and Steel Community? (hint in 1951) This treaty started the process of formal integration which ultimately led to the European Union. By your logic we Europeans must be more enlightened that people in 23rd century.
Not sure I get your point? Because people were able to work together later on doesn't mean they forgot about the war that had just devoured the continent a few years earlier. Heck, it seems we're still dealing with Nazi's and the fallout of World War II now, 73 years after the fact.
Which is the point. War is messy business and doesn't just magically go away when people quit shooting.
On that note, I would recommend the documentary The Savage Peace on Netflix.
Why? If I meet with a person I don't bring up the long litany of things they did to me or their group did to me. Kirk is a very practical man and deals with the problems at hand, not past sins.
What about FASA and the Four Years War?
I agree with the majority of your post but I wanted to comment on this. Kirk, in TOS, is not one to dwell on his personal pain or the wrongs committed against him. He is far more aware of the larger implications of things, like Tracey's actions reflecting on the whole of Starfleet, or even is horror at what happens to Tyree and his people at the Klingon intervention introducing war to that planet.
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I'm not sure that being pushed to your doorstep, pushed to the point where you feel your only option is genocide would be easily forgettable.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
My point is that nothing in TOS and TOS movies contradicts our own historical post war behaviour. Maybe I am wrong but you implied that DSC war contradicts TOS because 8 years after war no one forgets.
Why was that relevant to talking with Kor? What would that do in solving the problem in that moment?I'm not sure that being pushed to your doorstep, pushed to the point where you feel your only option is genocide would be easily forgettable.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Also, what was Kirk's role? Was he even aware of the genocide plan? Was Kor? Did they participate in the invasion?
There is a lot of assumptions being made about what these characters must know when they simply might not have had reason to comment on it. I'm not saying these are not good questions or worth some scrutiny, but I fail to see that as an automatic rejection of Discovery regarding the events of TOS.
Funny, you speak of "inclusion" but you refer to people who don't agree with YOU as irreddemable a-holes ;and haters; pretty hypocritical, don't you think?
When I talk to people about the show NOBODY complains about the diversity of the characters just about how the writers are missing the boat developing them and the horrid, lazy plots. The truth of the mater is not many people care that there are gay characters; Trek has always been about diversity and inclusion from the very beginning! The hard cold fact is most people think the writing sucks because the story telling is just not good and has nothing to do with if a character is gay or not. In today's television environment it is pretty common to have gay characters in TV shows so your assertion just sounds like a hollow argument. As I said before, I am happy for those who enjoy STD I personally feel that it is a huge missed opportunity for a show with so much potential.
The people you talk to cannot be used as an example of how everyone feels about Discovery. There is plenty of anger coming from elements of the fanbase regarding the show having gay characters and an apparent 'SJW agenda'. It;s even happened on this board. The fanbase sadly has an element of conservative, right-wing types who totally ignore that Star Trek's main purpose is to show a future of diversity and acceptance. Whilst those people may be in the minority, they tend to be the loudest. So no, it's not a hollow argument at all.
Speaking as a more conservative, right of center person, I find that sad.
We can agree to disagree and funny that you negatively refer to "the fanbase sadly has an element of conservative, right wing types," lol, totally yourself destroying the argument of inclusion, etc.. I don't believe there is any great portion of any group that feel or would feel negatively about any of the characters if they were written well; or even half decently. Again, we can agree to disagree but most people who don't like the show complain about the stories, plots and character development; not having gay characters and apparent SJW agenda.
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I would think it would be relevant with Ayelbourne, not Kor. When the Organians are treating both sides as children.
I don't know what rock you're living under, nor do I know WHY THE ANGRY TEXT FORMAT IS PART OF THE DEAL TODAY. Nobody said you personally felt this way, but if you go to other, less regulated forums or places to engage in discussion, it's literally all you hear.
So I don't agree with you. I'd say there's plenty of people who actually hate the show for the reasons I've listed. I'm pleased that the people you talk to aren't like that. Then I'd say there's a group of people who patiently tried the show and didn't like it because it wasn't to their taste. This is where your personal opinion of writing flaws, etc comes in. Then, there's a whole lot more people who like it. Pretty simple.
I wasn't making a hollow argument. I was making an observation. You're the one who decided to argue.
Relax, you'll live longer.
Amen my friend....
I'm not saying that those people can't be fans, just pointing out that it's generally people with a conservative mindset who completely miss the point of what star trek is about. I've been a fan for nearly 30 years and sadly Star Trek fans can be among the most closed-minded of people, especially when it comes to gay characters. Gay main characters have been featured in multiple tv shows since the 80's yet it took Star Trek 30 years to finally include a homosexual character in the main cast. Why do you think that is?
Star Trek's main purpose is to make financial profit for TPTB. Anything else is secondary.
Kor
Kirk makes the prospects of the threats pretty clear by my read. If Ayelbourne is unmoved by threats of forced enslavement, then Kirk's description of invasion fleets are likely to be unsuccessful. Kirk is a pragmatist.
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