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"Field of fire" and others

Problem is, when mass shootings are discussed, the issues surrounding them always seem to follow. They just seem inextricably linked.

We'll see what Picard and Discovery do on the subject, if anything. It's too sore a subject for LD to lampoon, and too adult for Prodigy.
 
^Though, in a sad paradox, Prodigy may be the perfect series to tackle the subject in an appropriate manner given the horrific increase in shootings involving children.
 
As someone who's moderate in the debate, I could write reams on the subject, but this is not the place for it.

Prodigy should probably get a little more established before it tackles such a weighty and controversial subject.
 
^Though, in a sad paradox, Prodigy may be the perfect series to tackle the subject in an appropriate manner given the horrific increase in shootings involving children.
No thanks. I see better education by responsible adults and parents than random cartoon.
 
It was just meant as a lighthearted observation, nothing more and nothing less. Most certainly no personal insult was intended. You are American, are you not? Going by your location field, I felt pretty safe to assume that you are.

And well, it's hard to sugar-coat it, but outside of your country, the US' handling of gun laws isn't seen as particularly sensible by many. Solutions to problems arising from liberal gun laws can usually summed up as “More guns!”. I'm not sure how your personal awareness is of these things, but believe me, metal detectors in schools are something I never ever saw anywhere but the US. Where I live something like that is seen as a laughably cynical measure. And that was what your technical solutions reminded me of. I'm sorry you felt attacked because of that.

Yes, I'm an American, and yes, I defaulted to trying to come up with tech solutions to mitigate the problem earlier in this thread, but I would certainly prefer that mitigating solutions not be needed in the first place. These kinds of crimes should be unthinkable, not so common that we devote serious thought to how to prevent them.

I take no pride in my country's arguable efforts to address gun control, and I grew up in a time when the idea of a metal detector in a school would be mind-boggling in the "Why do we need these?" sense, so I hope you can understand how your comment may have rubbed me the wrong way.
 
Yes, I'm an American, and yes, I defaulted to trying to come up with tech solutions to mitigate the problem earlier in this thread, but I would certainly prefer that mitigating solutions not be needed in the first place. These kinds of crimes should be unthinkable, not so common that we devote serious thought to how to prevent them.

I take no pride in my country's arguable efforts to address gun control, and I grew up in a time when the idea of a metal detector in a school would be mind-boggling in the "Why do we need these?" sense, so I hope you can understand how your comment may have rubbed me the wrong way.
Thanks for saying all that. I think I understand how you wouldn‘t want to be lumped in with those people who oppose more restrictive gun laws. In my mind it was just an amusing observation that you would list measures that merely mitigate the root problem. It wasn‘t meant to show you up or something like that. And I wasn’t trying to make a generalized statement about all Americans. But I see now how it could have felt like that to you. And I‘m sorry for that.
 
Thank you; I appreciate it. :)

Maybe the problem with mass shootings is that there's no single root cause?
Yes, an abundance of guns makes it easier to get one, but if someone is determined to commit such an act, how much harder would guns need to be to deter them? Yes, I do think that guns being -at all- harder to procure is a good idea, but thinking in terms of 'the bottom line', I don't know how much harder they'd have to be to acquire before it would make a difference. Sorry if I'm discussing such a horrific topic in such a forensic manner.

Then there's the issue of what makes people want to commit these acts in the first place. There's mental illness, and the stigmatization of it, which makes people who might benefit from help less likely to pursue it, but what about the shooters who aren't mentally ill (though there's an argument that anyone who wants to do this is mentally ill), or the ones who 'pass' enough that they don't seek/aren't compelled to seek help?

There's cultural/environmental (as in, their circumstances) factors that likely contribute to one wanting to commit a mass shooting, and those are even harder to combat.

Filtering the above through a Trek lens may help to explain why I primarily approached this from a tech standpoint:

In the franchise we primarily see things through Starfleet's eyes, with DS9 being the closest to an exception. Among those in the service, firearms appear abundant enough for anyone who wants one. It's less clear how easy it is for a civilian to get their hands on a phaser in general terms.

As to whether the mass shooter mentality is less common in the future? It's hard to say. People seem generally better off, at least on Earth, but on Cardassia, or on any of the more repressive worlds we saw in the history of the franchise?
Better treatment options for mental illness certainly exist, though we also see plenty of mental illness in the future.

TL;DR Between our limited perspective (primarily Starfleet) into the franchise, what seems to be a greater level of happiness among the people we follow overall, and the presence of better treatment options for mental illness, it doesn't seem surprising that there'd be fewer if any incidents of mass shootings among the people we follow. As discussed before, in cases where one may be inclined to do such a thing, future tech hopefully swiftly mitigates if not outright eliminates the threat.
 
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There are numerous factors and accessibility isn't the only one. I turned down far more people than I sold guns to when working for a dealer. People found ways around it regardless.

I think mental health stigma is still a struggle because people are convinced they will just be thrown in to an asylum and their rights taken away. Even with youngers they feel a measure of powerlessness.

It's not an easy question because there are so many factors, and each one requires time.
 
Maybe the problem with mass shootings is that there's no single root cause?
Just because there may be diverse causes does not mean that mass shootings aren't motivated or scripted. Part of American culture implicitly celebrates guns and shooting as solutions to all sorts of problems, particularly slights to personal honor and reputation.
 
A lot of kids who are bullied have also come to expect from experience that the adults around will not be on their side. They'll either flat out ignore what they are saying, minimize what the impact on them should be, or give some minor punishment that doesn't deter the behavior but causes a further lack of social standing.

Countries that have fewer guns don't actually have lower rates of violent crime, but a much lower percentage of that crime is deadly. The existence of guns doesn't make people want to do violent things, it just makes people who do violent things cause more damage. So I don't agree with the moral imperative not to enjoy gun related entertainment.
 
A lot of kids who are bullied have also come to expect from experience that the adults around will not be on their side.

So are you implying that a lot of mass shootings are done by young men who feel bullied? Could be a lot of truth to that, but isn’t the same situation common in many countries….they just don’t have the same availability of guns. One could conclude that guns are more protected than people in America.

In “Field of fire” Ezri intuited the killer’s motive when she saw the similar photos. (IIRC the scenes with Joran making her handle the weapon were unnecessary to solving the crime.) If there were a Trek episode on mass shooting, maybe some crew member would see warning signs, discover the killer’s motive, then he or she would prevent the massacre, and turn the guy’s life around. No offense intended, but....it's men or teenage boys who do these mass shootings. There seems to be an identification of guns with virility --or toxic masculinity -- that goes back to idolizing cowboys.

Anyway, there's no 'moral imperative' not to enjoy DS9 - the writers went out of their way to show that war was not glorious but brutal, heartbreaking, wretched. They just never dealt with mass shootings in the US, partly because it was not so widespread at the time.
 
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So I don't agree with the moral imperative not to enjoy gun related entertainment.
Indeed.

The larger takewaway I always have is that people who don't feel heard often feel trapped and act out. Hell, I was recently working with a client who felt suicidal and was thinking about using a pencil. This was out of the norm behavior for them but it was still where they were at and feeling trapped. Often times it is an acting out behavior because all other behaviors were ignored or dismissed. Which is not to excuse the behavior since it is horrific but to garner some understanding, as well as recognize that enjoying gun related entertainment is not automatically connected.
 
So are you implying that a lot of mass shootings are done by young men who feel bullied? Could be a lot of truth to that, but isn’t the same situation common in many countries….they just don’t have the same availability of guns. One could conclude that guns are more protected than people in America.

Exactly, without the guns, those guys would act out in less lethal ways. Hence, other countries have the same or higher assault rates but lower murder rates.

Isn't that the usual motive at least in mass shootings committed by school age kids?

I'm not sure I'd draw a connection between idolizing movies with virtuous gun violence and random gun violence. Just like no link has ever been found between violent video games and violent behavior, no matter how desperately they tried. Children idolize Ninja Turtles, you don't see them going around killing people with swords. I don't think it's about entertainment, I think it's goes down to base cavemen instincts to be dominant when you're feeling weak and helpless.
 
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