Feminism in Star Trek Discovery

[valden]

So something about star trek discovery, that has always bothered me is how the female characters are presented and portrayed.
First of all, let me just say that I am a woman, I grew up loving and adoring Buffy The Vampire Slayer and I rank that show as one of the greatest series of all time, that was a mostly female led show, I have a soft spot for the Charlie's angels franchise, and I consumed Desperate Housewives in the mid 2000s and I liked Sex and the City So I am all for women and females in lead shows.

However I just seem to find star trek discovery very annoying, aggressive and mean-spirited on so many levels with the strong female driven element and I think it is because, the show does not first see it self as a sci fi show, it sees it self more as a political platform for a narrative that consumes every aspect of the series. i think this is where the show went wrong in their feminism approach.

star trek discovery from my experience always comes off as if it has a personal vendetta against men. not only are the women more than men in numbers, every character arc is by 80% female driven. in season 3, the mirror universe story was one of my issues.

I do admit I have stopped watching the show by mid season 4 but I still follow the news and fan discussions, However there was nothing left anymore that could interest in. the show on a given level was poorly written by season 2 and is CW generic , however that would not have stopped me from still watching the show, if it had some other qualities that were cool enough.

real feminism to me has never been about reducing the role of men, or making women look more like men in appearance, or portraying every father as a deadbeat dad. feminism to me has always been about balance. Desperate Housewives had this concept done right, despite the fact it was even on paper a completely female driven series than star trek discovery and the stories were told from the housewives point of view alone

If star trek discovery was more like FRIENDS where it was 3 male and 3 female characters that always balanced and leaned on each other for comfort, loyalty, love, romance and friendship. I would have loved that. However ,I cannot get pass discovery anymore where almost every single character is a woman by 80-1 , it is just extremely ridiculous and does not portray any kind of reality of the world or the future world.

Additionally it helped that these shows like Friends, Buffy, Sex and the City (the original series 1998-2004) were so well written , so it made you appreciate many things a lot more. star trek discovery is not Emmy worthy material for best drama , so what that does is just highlight all the other shortcomings of the series that would have been hidden away.

Again, I am a woman and I have my collection of Barbie dolls. so please I hope people will refrain from calling me, anti-sjw, right wing, MAGA fan and all the other stuff because I am certainly not in this camp, neither do I agree with any of their politics.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think people would pay less attention to the gender imbalance if it were reversed. DSC is the first Star Trek series to have more women than men, as well as more women in power. In the preceding five series, it was always the reverse. Maybe two wrongs don't make a right, but we're not anywhere close to that point yet if you look at what DSC has done compared to the history of the franchise in general.

 

[cultcross]

star trek discovery from my experience always comes off as if it has a personal vendetta against men

What has Discovery done to earn this description, specifically? I can't think of one anti-men thing it's done.

It's had generally more women than men in prominent roles, certainly, but there's nothing 'anti men' about that. Any more than Janeway and Seven dominating the narrative in the second half of Voyager was 'anti men'. Discovery is not short of strong male characters, and I can't think of one explicitly or even implicitly anti-male thing it has done.

Perhaps some examples would illustrate your point?

 

[valden]

I think people would pay less attention to the gender imbalance if it were reversed. DSC is the first Star Trek series to have more women than men, as well as more women in power. In the preceding five series, it was always the reverse. Maybe two wrongs don't make a right, but we're not anywhere close to that point yet if you look at what DSC has done compared to the history of the franchise in general.

You make some good point sand I think this would have gone unnoticeable if discovery was an actual brilliant sci fi show with great depth, where there was a great story been told that interwove well with a political or social veiwpoint, this is what TNG had in great abundance that discovery lacks, so discovery just always come off looking worse.

As a woman, the part that hurts the most is that the male characters from the past shows were better written and more fun characters to watch.

I am a girl but I just happen to find Picard, Data, Gerodi, Data and Obrien from TNG more enjoyable to watch, even with the not so great episode of TNG than I did from any discovery character.

and sometimes I keep asking myself why?

 

[fireproof78]

and sometimes I keep asking myself why?

I'm a guy and I find Burnham, Tilly and Detmer more enjoyable than TNG characters.

Rarely do I worry about connecting because of a characters gender. I focus on how I connect emotionally.

 

[cultcross]

You make some good point sand I think this would have gone unnoticeable if discovery was an actual brilliant sci fi show with great depth, where there was a great story been told that interwove well with a political or social veiwpoint, this is what TNG had in great abundance that discovery lacks, so discovery just always come off looking worse.

As a woman, the part that hurts the most is that the male characters from the past shows were better written and more fun characters to watch.

I am a girl but I just happen to find Picard, Data, Gerodi, Data and Obrien from TNG more enjoyable to watch, even with the not so great episode of TNG than I did from any discovery character.

and sometimes I keep asking myself why?

Discovery's writing problems are many and varied - its diversity of characters is not one of them.

 

[Takeru]

I grew up loving and adoring Buffy The Vampire Slayer and I rank that show as one of the greatest series of all time, that was a mostly female led show, I have a soft spot for the Charlie's angels franchise, and I consumed Desperate Housewives in the mid 2000s and I liked Sex and the City So I am all for women and females in lead shows.

So you enjoy shows with a majority female cast and mostly female driven plots.

But you criticize Discovery for this:

not only are the women more than men in numbers, every character arc is by 80% female driven.

This doesn't make a lot of sense and it makes me question if your previous statement is completely true especially when you bring up Sex and the City which didn't a single male series regular and 100% of arcs were female driven.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I'm terrible at math, but even I can see this thread doesn't add up.

 

[F. King Daniel]

star trek discovery from my experience always comes off as if it has a personal vendetta against men.

If it bothers you, keep to shows where women play more subservient roles. Rest of us are just fine.

-A man who doesn't feel one bit threatened by anyone on Discovery.

 

[FederationHistorian]

To the OP,

You would have a stronger case if you discussed how Yar, Ro & Guinan interacted with the men on TNG. Or how Kira and Jadzia interacted with the men on DS9. Or how Janeway interacted with the men on VOY. And then explain how they were different from Burnham, Tilly, Detmer, Owosekun, Cornwall, Reno, & Rillak. Since there have been strong women in Star Trek before. All those shows were 20-30 years ago, and DIS is catering to the audience of today.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So something about star trek discovery, that has always bothered me is how the female characters are presented and portrayed.
First of all, let me just say that I am a woman, I grew up loving and adoring Buffy The Vampire Slayer and I rank that show as one of the greatest series of all time, that was a mostly female led show, I have a soft spot for the Charlie's angels franchise, and I consumed Desperate Housewives in the mid 2000s and I liked Sex and the City So I am all for women and females in lead shows.

Really? Because it doesn't seem so in this case. Why the distinction?

However I just seem to find star trek discovery very annoying, aggressive and mean-spirited on so many levels with the strong female driven element and I think it is because, the show does not first see it self as a sci fi show, it sees it self more as a political platform for a narrative that consumes every aspect of the series. i think this is where the show went wrong in their feminism approach.

Right, because there was that time where Species 10-C were giant space ovaries who wanted the right to abort their offspring but religious fundamentalists like Book and Tarka were trying to outlaw it. Oh wait, that didn't happen, and it was a pretty standard scifi story.

star trek discovery from my experience always comes off as if it has a personal vendetta against men. not only are the women more than men in numbers, every character arc is by 80% female driven. in season 3, the mirror universe story was one of my issues.

I remember there being one time Empress Georgiou made a crack about men having "tiny male brains" or something like that. One time in four seasons, out of the mouth of Cannibal Space Hitler, who no one is supposed to confuse with being the good "guy" or having the right philosophy of life to follow.

Then all the fragiles freaked out when generic overconfident idiot, who just happened
to be male, got squashed like a bug on an asteroid. Nevermind that characters like that have always existed in Trek, and that another male character, Pike, made it through the same gauntlet and is held up as the ideal heroic type.

real feminism to me has never been about reducing the role of men, or making women look more like men in appearance, or portraying every father as a deadbeat dad. feminism to me has always been about balance. Desperate Housewives had this concept done right, despite the fact it was even on paper a completely female driven series than star trek discovery and the stories were told from the housewives point of view alone

Who is a deadbeat dad? Burnham's dad died. Her adoptive father Sarek had his issues with Spock but can't really be described as a deadbeat dad, especially since we found out he keeps adding to his family.

In Desperate Housewives the men acted way worse than they did on Discovery, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

You're asserting things which aren't in evidence. You need to provide some specific examples from Discovery if you want to keep this thread going, Otherwise it just comes off as a baseless grievance.

If star trek discovery was more like FRIENDS where it was 3 male and 3 female characters that always balanced and leaned on each other for comfort, loyalty, love, romance and friendship. I would have loved that. However ,I cannot get pass discovery anymore where almost every single character is a woman by 80-1 , it is just extremely ridiculous and does not portray any kind of reality of the world or the future world.

This is the first Trek series with more women in the lead cast than men, and suddenly it's a huge feminist agenda crisis. What about when there were more men previously? Was that a Magenta... err Mangenda? Or does it just count when it's women?

Also, the cast is not nearly so lopsided as you suggest it is. There have been a lot of men each season (and that chart is incomplete):

Again, I am a woman and I have my collection of Barbie dolls. so please I hope people will refrain from calling me, anti-sjw, right wing, MAGA fan and all the other stuff because I am certainly not in this camp, neither do I agree with any of their politics.

Repeatedly saying you're a woman who does stereotypically girlie things does not shield oneself from saying sexist things or being called out for said sexism.

As a woman...
I am a girl...

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[ThankQ]

If star trek discovery was more like FRIENDS where it was 3 male and 3 female characters that always balanced and leaned on each other for comfort, loyalty, love, romance and friendship. I would have loved that. However ,I cannot get pass discovery anymore where almost every single character is a woman by 80-1

I haven't read through all the replies yet, but why is this so jarring? MOST TV shows have been MOSTLY men for MOST of history. Gunsmoke wasn't exactly balanced between men and women.

I'm not saying now it's time to make everything about women and make everything 80% women now and TV must be all women now. What I'm asking of people with the opinion you have here is... why? Why is all-men acceptable and all-women is jarring?

And how about this... what if there actually is, unashamedly, a nearly-all-female Star Trek series on? There's like a dozen series now. Hell, there's probably a series in production about the night shift at the Earth-Branson Subspace Dispatch Relay and Crab Shack. I mean, women can't be too far on the list below that.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Repeatedly saying you're a woman who does stereotypically girlie things does not shield oneself from saying sexist things or being called out for said sexism.

Indeed and well said.

 

[The Wormhole]

Also, the cast is not nearly so lopsided as you suggest it is. There have been a lot of men each season (and that chart is incomplete):

Indeed, just looking at that chart, out of the 38 people there, 22 are male, 14 are female, and 2 are non-binary.

But of course, women totally dominate this show.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I wish people could just say “I don’t like Discovery”. There’s really no need to make stuff up to justify that position.

 

[fireproof78]

I wish people could just say “I don’t like Discovery”. There’s really no need to make stuff up to justify that position.

But, then how will we know?

 

[Charles Phipps]

I have issues with Discovery of pacing, spectacle over substance, overly serialized content, and needless violence as well as bad handling of the Klingons. I still love the show.

I feel any comment that it was its handling of feminism to be....yeah, hard to qualify.

Even if you argue Lorca and Voq are EVIL men, this is the show with Ansom Mount's Pike and Admiral Vance. Not even counting Stamets, Culper, and Saru.

 

[dupersuper]

As a woman, the part that hurts the most is that the male characters from the past shows were better written and more fun characters to watch.

To be fair, as I find the writing to be an issue on Discovery, I find most of the characters of whatever gender from the other shows better written. But Saru and Book and the head admiral of the 32nd century are all competent, respected characters played by good actors doing their best with the sometimes spotty writing. Any issues I've had with Discovery had nothing to do with the characters genders.

 

[XCV330]

To be fair, as I find the writing to be an issue on Discovery, I find most of the characters of whatever gender from the other shows better written. But Saru and Book and the head admiral of the 32nd century are all competent, respected characters played by good actors doing their best with the sometimes spotty writing. Any issues I've had with Discovery had nothing to do with the characters genders.

agreed.

they've always had a problem with dialogue, but I think pacing became a real problem, too. Maybe COVID restrictions just stymied the writer's attempt to make something work, but I don't know. I liked the other seasons better but there are many who feel the opposite. I will add I think initially they did know how to write for Tilly but gradually her development seemed to drift off. Once she was gone though her abilty to inject humanity into the show was missing. If we take "Context is for Kings" as the real beginning of the show, then in some ways Discovery was always a dual heros' journey: Burnham's journey of redemption, and Tilly's journey from student into her career. And in a way, I suppose both those journeys did get completed.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I'm a man and to prove it I have a collection of toy soldiers and I don't think Discovery is a show that even has feminism on its' agenda.