• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Feelings Halfway Through The Series

You can write good stories that have more than two main characters. It's done all the time on most shows. Most shows have a main cast that usually have more than two, right?

I completely agree, but do those shows have more than 10 episodes?

In the episodes we've seen, all three aren't as involved as they could be. What parts of those stories get pared down to make more time for the companion development?

50 minutes is a good length to be sure. Most hour long shows are 35-40 minutes, but with more episodes, so longer seasons to flesh out characters.

I've only watched a couple Hartnell's, but weren't Ian, Barbara and even Susan more like classic companions in that they weren't as utilized as nuWho ones are?
 
I completely agree, but do those shows have more than 10 episodes?

In the episodes we've seen, all three aren't as involved as they could be. What parts of those stories get pared down to make more time for the companion development?

50 minutes is a good length to be sure. Most hour long shows are 35-40 minutes, but with more episodes, so longer seasons to flesh out characters.

I've only watched a couple Hartnell's, but weren't Ian, Barbara and even Susan more like classic companions in that they weren't as utilized as nuWho ones are?
That's a good point about the number of episodes. I'm not a heavy TV show watcher but I want to say that yes those exist, but I don't have any examples off-hand. It just seems like four is not such a large regular cast compared to most shows.

As the episodes were written, yeah, characters were under-utilized. But, with better writing, that wouldn't be the case. I'm not a TV writer, so I can't say how I would've done it, but other TV series show how it can be done.

Well, they had many more episodes in the Hartnell era, so I'm sure that helped.
 
Last edited:
Worth noting there were occasions where Susan would be sidelined for an entire story (The Aztecs springs to mind I think) and Christ wasn't there a Davison story where Nyssa was just asleep with a headache? I mean in Earthshock it's painful how contrived Nyssa staying in the Tardis becomes.
 
In the 60's some of the cast regularly vanished, like Susan in the Aztecs, but that was because of holiday/illness, not because they were doing it in order to showcase the other characters.

In the 80's with less episodes they did sideline characters though even then Nyssa with a headache in Kinda was because of how many episodes she was contracted for (or something along those lines anyway) rather than her actually being ignored.
 
I'm loving this season/series. Jodie is The Doctor (and my favorite of them all), her companions are nuanced, and being fleshed out well, especially with the latest episode, and there hasn't been a big villain, but there has been shortsightedness, ignorance, sectarian violence, and bigotry, even as The Doctor and her companions can only affect things in the tiniest of nudges because those concepts are enormous, and powerful in their own right. It's as if to say we can't escape or gloss over our own history, no matter how much we might wish we could.

Considering how those problems plague us right now, I cannot think of a better sounding board for The Doctor to cry out against. My favorite episode is currently "Demons of the Punjab."

I can't wait to see more.
 
I'm enjoying this series more than I expected to.

Granted, I went in with minimal expectations. I plan to revisit it at some point but on first viewing the Capaldi era left me pretty cold and while I like the Moffat era in general, it did rather disappear up its own mythos and keeping track of the details became a bit wearing (particularly after Smith's departure). Clearing the decks and effectively starting over was probably a wise move and it gave Chibnall the scope to do something different.

Thus far, IMO, it's succeeding. After the over-the-top bombast and the beyond irritating turn-the-Doctor-into-a-Gallifrey-destroying-arsehole excesses of the RTD era and the Moffat-era issues I mentioned, this series feels like a breath of fresh air. The Doctor is still recognisably the Doctor but there's none of the baggage that weighed the character down for so much of new Who. This regeneration seems like a genuine new beginning - while, critically, remaining the same character - and I'm finding it quite refreshing. I like that there isn't an enemy of the week every week (speaking of enemies, I so wish the Nation estate had denied access to the Daleks, and the new Who Borg-like Cybermen should never appear again IMO). I like that, just for a while, it's the Doctor and her companions getting to know each other and seeing something of what's out there.

That isn't to say there aren't some issues. Whether it's Whittaker's choice or Chibnall's or the writing or whatever, the Tennant vibe she occasionally displays has to go. While it's the same character and echoes of past incarnations make sense, I detested Tennant's portrayal to the point where reminders are...most unwelcome. Otherwise I like her, and I like the companions. I still want them to become better-realised characters, but six episodes in I suppose there's only so much character development that can happen. It does need to happen, though. Some actual plots in these episodes wouldn't go astray, either, and while I'm not averse to social commentary in my SF a bit more subtlety would be good ("Arachnids in the UK" was the main offender there).

So there are a few problems, but this Doctor and her companions are genuinely likeable and the series is off to a promising start. I'm still watching and I want to keep watching, so it's already well ahead of the Capaldi era for mine. There's only been one episode I haven't been impressed with and even it had its moments. More, please.

[...] in the end she winds up doing the same thing she does in Rosa, turning her back on the situation and letting history take its course.
I really don't understand this particular criticism of this series. History happened (so to speak). What was the Doctor supposed to do during the events of "Rosa" other than let history take its course? Was she supposed to somehow save Prem and rewrite Yaz's existence? Reshape Partition so that it worked better? I don't see what else she could do, and I don't think it's necessary for the Doctor to determine history / events in every episode. Time traveller or not, sometimes things ought to be able to unfold as they should - especially (as in "Rosa") when they actually did happen.

(Apologies for the essay. :lol:)
 
This regeneration seems like a genuine new beginning - while, critically, remaining the same character - and I'm finding it quite refreshing. I like that there isn't an enemy of the week every week (speaking of enemies, I so wish the Nation estate had denied access to the Daleks, and the new Who Borg-like Cybermen should never appear again IMO). I like that, just for a while, it's the Doctor and her companions getting to know each other and seeing something of what's out there.
Yup, I agree wholeheartedly with this (including the parenthetical). Things are starkly different from the previous seasons and the show is better for it.

(Apologies for the essay. :lol:)
No need to apologize. 'Tis a good read. :bolian:
 
Well written essay @Orac Zen :)

With Rosa the die was cast, and that's fine. I think they missed a trick with Demons of the Punjab though in that they could have had the intervention of the Doctor and Co be what saves Yaz's gran. As it stands the only reason they were there was for the Doctor to marry the couple, everything else presumably went as it always had. It was a great episode but for me that would have tripped it from 9/10 into 10/10
 
Well written essay @Orac Zen :)
:bolian:
I think they missed a trick with Demons of the Punjab though in that they could have had the intervention of the Doctor and Co be what saves Yaz's gran.
Fair enough. For me, though, that would be the sort of contrivance that would take me out of the story / make suspension of disbelief difficult / simply annoy me. The Doctor takes her new companion back in time because she has to save the grandma of her new companion so the new companion would exist to be her new companion. Yeah, that would probably annoy me, but to each their own. :D
As it stands the only reason they were there was for the Doctor to marry the couple, everything else presumably went as it always had. It was a great episode but for me that would have tripped it from 9/10 into 10/10
When I think about it that's a bit of a false note in "Demons of the Punjab". Strangely dressed woman turns up in time to step in to perform the ceremony and no one turns a hair. That's a contrivance, too, but I can live with that one. Just.

Yup, I agree wholeheartedly with this (including the parenthetical). Things are starkly different from the previous seasons and the show is better for it.
No need to apologize. 'Tis a good read. :bolian:
Agreeing with me and a compliment? Who are you and where is the real Meh? :p :D
 
:bolian: Fair enough. For me, though, that would be the sort of contrivance that would take me out of the story / make suspension of disbelief difficult / simply annoy me. The Doctor takes her new companion back in time because she has to save the grandma of her new companion so the new companion would exist to be her new companion. Yeah, that would probably annoy me, but to each their own. :DWhen I think about it that's a bit of a false note in "Demons of the Punjab". Strangely dressed woman turns up in time to step in to perform the ceremony and no one turns a hair. That's a contrivance, too, but I can live with that one. Just.

Agreeing with me and a compliment? Who are you and where is the real Meh? :p :D

Ok but look at something like Father's Day. The whole point was it came down to Pete not being alone when he died, it wasn't necessary for Rose to come into being but it did impact how Rose grew up and felt about herself. Maybe saving Umbreen would have been 'too much' but maybe it was just a case of the Doctor/Yaz et al creating space. "It wasn't pointless Yaz, us being there gave Prem and Umbreen another day of happiness, never underestimate what a day of happiness means in the grand scheme of things."
 
I have quite liked this series so far. Jodie reminds me of the 2nd Doctor (my favourite Doctor). Tennant also reminded me of the 2nd Doctor.

When people say that the companions have not have had enough character development - do most character have much development 5 or 7 episodes in the first season of most shows?

I like the historical episodes the most but I have always like the Doctor exploring history. I remember how I disliked at first when the 3rd Doctor was confined to Earth in the 20th century. Can you imagine how much bitching there would have been about that if the internet had been around back then.

So far I have liked episodes 1, 3, 6, and 7 and though the others were average.
 
When people say that the companions have not have had enough character development - do most character have much development 5 or 7 episodes in the first season of most shows?
Or to put a finer point on it, what about most Doctor Who characters? Especially those during the classic series.

I like the historical episodes the most but I have always like the Doctor exploring history. I remember how I disliked at first when the 3rd Doctor was confined to Earth in the 20th century. Can you imagine how much bitching there would have been about that if the internet had been around back then.
I've often thought about that. I was around back then, but my understanding is that there was a fair number of people who weren't happy about it back then. Doctor Who would've had so much more criticism back in the day if the Internet had been around back then. Mary Whitehouse would've probably had a much larger following, too.

But yeah. People would freak out horribly in this day and age if The Doctor was grounded to Earth in the 20th/21st century.

...and I would be one of them! :lol:
 
In the 60's some of the cast regularly vanished, like Susan in the Aztecs, but that was because of holiday/illness, not because they were doing it in order to showcase the other characters.

In the 80's with less episodes they did sideline characters though even then Nyssa with a headache in Kinda was because of how many episodes she was contracted for (or something along those lines anyway) rather than her actually being ignored.

In the story, The Mind Robber, when Frazer Hines came down with the chickenpox part way through the filming of an episode and they had to do a quick rewrite of the script so they could have Jamie change his appearance for most of the episodes. I remember I was quite worried while watching it that I might not get my beloved Jamie back.
 
Last edited:
In the story, The Mind Robber, when Frazer Hines came down with the chickenpox part way through the filming of an episode and they had to do a quick rewrite of the script so they could have Jamie charge his appearance for most of the episodes. I remember I was quite worried while watching it that I might not get my beloved Jamie back.
I don't know which episode it would have been (I'm not sure she knows) but if it was after the Mind Robber and Jamie didn't change back, we'd never have gotten Outlander. Or it would be very different.

(Diana Gabaldon was flicking though channels and she came across an episode with Jamie. She was quite taken with the character, and gave her main character the same name.)
 
I'm not sure how I'm feeling about this season. I like the Doctor and Companions a lot, but the plotting and moral viewpoint of the show seems off. From an entertainment perspective, having "Kerblam!" subvert Doctor Who's typical evil corporation, evil CEO, evil computer tropes made for an entertaining twist, but having the company that surveils its employees via ankle bracelet, harasses them for having unproductive conversation during work hours, and murders an innocent woman because it can't do more than half-ass its attempts to stop the real bad guy end up being lauded felt really weird, along with the moral that the end of the phrase "fully-automated" should be "except for bullshit makework to give people 'purpose'" rather than "luxury space communism." The episode itself seemed of two minds about it, too. Sure, you could argue all the negatives about space-Amazon were included to be red herrings, but then there's the tidbit at the end about them shutting down the company for a month, and magnanimously giving the workers two weeks' pay. What's the dramatic purpose of including that, but not commenting on it?

The whole thing makes it seem like having two episodes in rapid succession where the Doctor stood by and let bad things happen Because History wasn't just an accident, and is uncomfortably jarring for me, considering one of my favorite things about the Moffat era is how gleefully it dispensed with the trope of the Doctor not being able to help people because of arbitrary Rules of Time and making them the bad guy for trying (looking at you, "Waters of Horseshit.") This Doctor is ending up being more of a tour guide than a hero, and that's not a great look.
 
The company didn't kill her, a compromised computer system which the villain of the piece had hacked into and prevented from raising the alarm in any other way did.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top