Feel of novels

[JarodRussell]

Hey everyone,

I'm curious... the TNG movies have often been critiziced for feeling just like two-hour-long TV episodes, and not like real motion pictures for the big screen.

What about all those novels out there? Are those feeling like TV episodes, or could those be movie material (and if so, why exactly would they qualify as such)?

Thanks!

 

[Christopher]

The novels are neither "episodes" nor "movies." They are novels. Most Trek novels don't try to copy the feel of television or movies, but instead try to take full advantage of the novel format, which allows storytelling of a type that isn't possible in either TV episodes or movies. A novel can be far more in-depth in its storytelling than a movie, yet has none of the budgetary limitations of a TV series. It can feature more characters than a TV episode could afford to include, and develop them more fully than a movie would have time for. Its focus can be far more internalized and idea-driven than the visual media, allowing deeper examination of the characters, their cultures, their history, the workings of their universe, and so on. Its pacing isn't constrained by the multi-act structure of commercial television or the insanely tight editing demanded in motion pictures these days.

The purpose of Trek novels is not merely to imitate TV and film, but to complement the shows and films by offering Trek stories told in ways that TV and film can't pull off. They are their own distinct entity.

 

[JarodRussell]

Yes, I know the basic difference between books and motion pictures.



What I mean are the stories and scope and how they would translate to the other medium. A lot of books deal with personal dilemmas centered on one character and sometimes he doesn't even leave the ship. That for instance would be a TV episode in my opinion, but not movie material. And I'm not even talking about technicalities like the book being too long for 45/90/120 minutes and stuff, it's about the basic feel.

Reading the novelization of the Trek movies for example isn't so different from the other Trek novels I've read (I have to say I didn't read many, though).

If you ignore the stuff that can't be filmed (like you said, the deeper examinations of characters, cultures, technology and so forth), would most of the novels make for TV episodes or a movie?

 

[Daddy Todd]

Most of the books wouldn't make a good episodes OR movies. If they were to be adapted to a visual medium, most of the books would have to be something like a 10-hour miniseries to cover the storyline.

Christopher's statement is true: novels are neither episodes nor movies. They take the characters and background from a TV show and use them as building blocks to build NOVELS.

 

[Christopher]

What I mean are the stories and scope and how they would translate to the other medium. A lot of books deal with personal dilemmas centered on one character and sometimes he doesn't even leave the ship. That for instance would be a TV episode in my opinion, but not movie material. And I'm not even talking about technicalities like the book being too long for 45/90/120 minutes and stuff, it's about the basic feel.

That's exactly it. The novels don't feel like TV shows or movies. They feel like novels, because that's what they're designed to be. I'm not talking about technicalities either. I'm talking about the fundamental storytelling approach. A novel can be simultaneously more intimate in focus than a movie could be and grander in scope than a TV show could be. It's impossible to answer your question by making a direct analogy to either medium, because there is no exact comparison. Novels are more different from TV and movies than TV and movies are from each other.

If you ignore the stuff that can't be filmed (like you said, the deeper examinations of characters, cultures, technology and so forth), would most of the novels make for TV episodes or a movie?

Neither. Maybe a miniseries, but that's a rough comparison at best. It's just a bad analogy. A movie can be big in scale and spectacle, but in story terms it has to be stripped to the bare bones, more analogous to a novelette or novella. A single TV episode is more like a short story (although a play would be a better analogy), though a series can allow more depth, like a serial. A novel is bigger than a TV episode, deeper and fuller than a movie, less limited than either.

And there's no single generalization you can make about the style of "most" Trek novels. They run the gamut from smaller, more character-driven stories to grand, epic cosmic adventures, and as I said, they often combine both. And sometimes they tell stories that couldn't really translate well to either film or TV.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Some of my favourite Trek novels do feel as if they could indeed be movies. Strangers From The Sky, Federation, Prime Directive, Final Frontier (Diane Duane), they have a very visual feel to them that makes you feel as if the authors were seeing the movies in their heads when writing them.

Or maybe it's an artifact of discovering Trek in the televisual of cinematic medium, and instinctively treating the novels in the same way.

The reality of it is, were any of those novels to be turned into screenplays, you would lose 80, maybe 90% of the prose, most of the subplots, and of course, all of the inner voices and character development that actually makes the novel the medium that it is.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I think what the OP means is the difference between ones that feel like small intimate "bottle" stories and ones that feel like broad-scoped epics. Maybe also plot/event-driven vs character-driven.

 

[JarodRussell]

I think what the OP means is the difference between ones that feel like small intimate "bottle" stories and ones that feel like broad-scoped epics. Maybe also plot/event-driven vs character-driven.

Yes, exactly! Thanks!

Neither. Maybe a miniseries, but that's a rough comparison at best. It's just a bad analogy. A movie can be big in scale and spectacle, but in story terms it has to be stripped to the bare bones, more analogous to a novelette or novella. A single TV episode is more like a short story (although a play would be a better analogy), though a series can allow more depth, like a serial. A novel is bigger than a TV episode, deeper and fuller than a movie, less limited than either.

I give you one example of what I mean. The TNG novel "Grounded" by David Bischoff... the Enterprise follows a distress call of an outpost that has been covered by a mysterious, clay-like mass. And that mass infects the entire ship so that it is about to be destroyed by Starfleet. But Picard and crew are trying to save the ship before its destruction. That sounds totally like a TV episode for me, but not movie material. Of course even inside this book there are A LOT of parts that are not filmable, but the basic premise, the character interaction, the events, those would make for a nice TV episode.

 

[JarodRussell]

*double post*

 

[Christopher]

I think what the OP means is the difference between ones that feel like small intimate "bottle" stories and ones that feel like broad-scoped epics. Maybe also plot/event-driven vs character-driven.

Yes, exactly! Thanks!

Okay, but like I said, there's no way to answer that question about "most" novels. Some novels are small, intimate stories, others are broad epics, others are a mix of both. When you have a novel's worth of room, it's easy to tell an epic story yet find the time to delve into the intimate lives of your characters.

If there's anything that can be said about Trek novels as a whole, it's that they're very much not uniform. They don't all have a single common style or approach. There's something for every taste.

 

[William Leisner]

A lot of books deal with personal dilemmas centered on one character and sometimes he doesn't even leave the ship. That for instance would be a TV episode in my opinion, but not movie material. And I'm not even talking about technicalities like the book being too long for 45/90/120 minutes and stuff, it's about the basic feel.

I give you one example of what I mean. The TNG novel "Grounded" by David Bischoff... the Enterprise follows a distress call of an outpost that has been covered by a mysterious, clay-like mass. And that mass infects the entire ship so that it is about to be destroyed by Starfleet. But Picard and crew are trying to save the ship before its destruction. That sounds totally like a TV episode for me, but not movie material.

You're really not making this easier. Your summary of the Bischoff book stresses the massive threat on a global planetary level plot, with no mention of character dynamics or emotional elements... and then say that's TV material.

 

[Saul]

Okay, but like I said, there's no way to answer that question about "most" novels.

If you are going to take the question so literally you won't be able to answer it.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Okay, but like I said, there's no way to answer that question about "most" novels.

If you are going to take the question so literally you won't be able to answer it.

Deep Thought managed it after 4.5 billion years.

Of course there's no guarantee that you will like the answer you receive.

 

[Christopher]

Okay, but like I said, there's no way to answer that question about "most" novels.

If you are going to take the question so literally you won't be able to answer it.

There is no right answer to a question whose premise is based on a false assumption. The original question is, what is the feel of "all those novels out there?" The only truthful and meaningful answer is, it depends on the novel, because they're not all the same.

 

[flandry84]

In fairness,it would be nearly impossible to sustain a fully fledged "chase movie"or sustained action sequences for the entire lenght of a novel.Therefore Treklit often finds itself dealing with deeper,more involved subjects.It also affords the opportunity to give the characters a richer inner life(as with the Vaughn/Prynn relationship)that would slow a movie down(if it were to be included at all).
The downside of the deal is that Treklit is prone to certain story types and situations...personally speaking,if I never again read a story where the Starfleeters have to deal with "THE RULING COUNCIL"again ,it will be too soon.(Why must there always be cliched characters in these situations...the open,friendly minister,the sneaky distrustful one..etc,you know what I'm talking about.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

Why must there always be cliched characters in these situations...the open,friendly minister,the sneaky distrustful one..etc,

Sounds like real life to me.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

The downside of the deal is that Treklit is prone to certain story types and situations...personally speaking,if I never again read a story where the Starfleeters have to deal with "THE RULING COUNCIL"again ,it will be too soon.(Why must there always be cliched characters in these situations...the open,friendly minister,the sneaky distrustful one..etc,you know what I'm talking about.)

Therin beat me to it, but surely that's how the situation would work? Parties, factions, deliberately playing against one another; a conservative, distrustful faction verses a more progressive, open one? Most societies seem to me to be built on a balance or struggle between conservation/the insular and progression/outreach. The "Worlds of DS9" novels were, I'm guessing, a deliberate reinforcement/exploration of this idea. I'm guessing, though, you feel it sometimes becomes too clean-cut, and the politicians in question become too overtly the angel and devil on the shoulders, so to speak?

 

[Stevil2001]

I'm disappointed this thread was not about the actual, physical feel of novels. I wanted to register my appreciation of matte covers.

 

[rahullak]

I'm disappointed this thread was not about the actual, physical feel of novels. I wanted to register my appreciation of matte covers.

I thought the same too...

 

[Lee T]

I'm disappointed this thread was not about the actual, physical feel of novels. I wanted to register my appreciation of matte covers.

Seconded, I was quite disappointed with the glossy cover of Open Secrets.