Federations Members

[Tenacity]

"Taxation without representation" is not just a pithy phrase.

In DC you're never more than a few miles from being not in DC, as a adult you make a conscious decision to either move to a area where you wouldn't be about to vote, or if raised there stay in a area where you wouldn't be about to vote.

I drive 19 miles between my home and place of work, if I worked in DC, I'd be able to vote.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'd be okay with stripping out the residential sections of DC and reincorporating them into the state they original were a part of.

Make them citizens of Maryland.. Next.

Retrocession is not an option, as the state of Maryland doesn't WANT DC back.

In DC you're never more than a few miles from being not in DC, as a adult you make a conscious decision to either move to a area where you wouldn't be about to vote, or if raised there stay in a area where you wouldn't be about to vote.

It's not that simple.

People can't always afford to move, and (depending on their profession) may not even have the option of choosing where to live.

The simple fact is, DC residents deserve a voice in government, and as it stands, they don't have it. Statehood is the only logical remedy for this.

 

[Henoch]

150 member WORLDS. I assume the Federation definition of "world" is important. They must have requirements for minimum population size, etc. If you don't meet the minimum requirements, then you may join the Federation, but you won't get a vote or an equal vote (tossed in with a conglomeration of other small worlds with only one vote). YMMV

 

[Arpy]

^ We’re dealing with aliens. If to them, their definition of a world, their entire concept of loyalty or identification with anyone, is their local community, then to them, they’re just as independent as Mars, Deneva, Alpha Centauri, etc.

Additionally, the Arcturians and either the Aurellians or the Skorr are known for being able to breed billions of soldiers and/or (presumably) citizens very quickly. Should 300 billion Aurellians in 1 memberworld count less than 30 billion humans in 10? Wouldn’t it behoove the Aurellians to disunite as a society to gain profound advantage as a species? If the humans can do it...

 

[Tenacity]

150 member WORLDS. I assume the Federation definition of "world" is important.

LILY: How many planets are in this Federation?

PICARD: Over one hundred and fifty, spread across eight thousand light years.

I do make the assumption that "planets" means a species home planet, but there are other possibilities I suppose.

The species home planet, plus the entire home star system, all the planets there in, well out into the oort cloud. If they have colonies, mining worlds, etc., then the entirety of those star systems too. A new member who includes dozens (or hundreds) of star systems would be quite a valuable addition to the Federation.

I don't think that when a planet obtains membership in the Federation that somehow the Federation then gains possession of their planet and any planets that's apart of their inter-planetary/inter-stellar holdings. These would remain the members "personal property."

Kirk once spoke of "We're on a thousand planets and spreading out ..." I don't think he was referring to the Federation, that refers to Earth and Humans. Earth is a member of the Federation, but Earth has a existence separate from the Federation. Not everything Earth does is the Federation's business.

In TNG we heard of planets that were apparently owned by a corporation. I don't see why inter-stellar corporations and the planets they own couldn't be Federation members too.

Statehood is the only logical remedy for this.

No, not the only remedy.

 

[Arpy]

Are the Cancri Federation members in the future? Per the lit, the Xindi are; why not these neutral aliens? Especially given the Klingon betrayal. Did that push them toward the Federation, or are they still all the same, like the Mizarians, neutral no matter what?

In TNG we heard of planets that were apparently owned by a corporation. I don't see why inter-stellar corporations and the planets they own couldn't be Federation members too.

"Corporations aren't people, my friend." -- Mitt Romney's great-great-great-great-great-great-granddaughter.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I recall some promotional material for the 2009 movie saying the Federation of 2258 consisted of 130 member worlds and 700 colonies, which I thought was an excellent way to (nearly) reconcile Picard's number for worlds with Kirk's "we're on a thousand worlds and spreading" from TOS.

 

[Tenacity]

"Corporations aren't people, my friend."

Planets aren't people either.

 

[Arpy]

Planets aren't people either.

Not the geography or astrophysics of a planet, but in that the word is shorthand for a species, sure, close enough. Memberworld refers to the many planets, moons, stations, ships, and scattered citizens of that voting block. You could refer to it by homeworld or planet of origin too, sure, fine.

 

[Timo]

The idea of planets as voting blocks is a bit odd, not only because they might be mixed-species, but because species as voting blocks are odd, too. Most of the issues worth voting about would probably cover the whole UFP. Why reduce the YES, SMASH KLINGONS votes of all Andorians to the two votes of Andor and Andoria, when the NO, SPARE KLINGONS votes of all seven Hermitoids then win by virtue of coming from seven planets? Why hide the fact that of the Andorians, 49% actually voted NO?

It's sort of comforting that we never hear of "the Vulcan vote" or the like. For all we know, voting is direct, one vote per capita; or is divided along political parties rather than species or locations.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Arpy]

The idea of planets as voting blocks is a bit odd, not only because they might be mixed-species, but because species as voting blocks are odd, too. Most of the issues worth voting about would probably cover the whole UFP. Why reduce the YES, SMASH KLINGONS votes of all Andorians to the two votes of Andor and Andoria, when the NO, SPARE KLINGONS votes of all seven Hermitoids then win by virtue of coming from seven planets? Why hide the fact that of the Andorians, 49% actually voted NO?

It's sort of comforting that we never hear of "the Vulcan vote" or the like. For all we know, voting is direct, one vote per capita; or is divided along political parties rather than species or locations.

Timo Saloniemi

I believe I covered this upthread Timo. The Arcturians and Aurellians alone night be able to outbreed the rest of the Federation, if that’s the game, and the humans have a penchant for declaring every other colony independent, if that’s the game. Voting blocks by species/memberworld (which I imagine allows for representation of aliens there-in) seems the fairest and truly most democratic, in that the votes account for differences. How it’s all counted exactly remains a mystery. Please review post upthread before asking me to repeat myself, please.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In TNG we heard of planets that were apparently owned by a corporation.

Dytallix B was empty and used only for mining. That's why the corporation owned it. An inhabited planet would not be so owned.

As for the corp itself: Dytallix was probably headquartered in Federation territory (based on the fact that so many Starfleet vessels could easily gather there), and its staff would thus be citizens of the Federation, but Dytallix itself would not be.

Federation members are planets and their associated colonies.

150 member WORLDS. I assume the Federation definition of "world" is important. They must have requirements for minimum population size, etc. If you don't meet the minimum requirements, then you may join the Federation, but you won't get a vote or an equal vote (tossed in with a conglomeration of other small worlds with only one vote). YMMV

The only things we do know are requirements for Federation membership are 1) one world government, and 2) no caste-based discrimination. Population size is apparently not considered.

 

[Finn]

In DC you're never more than a few miles from being not in DC, as a adult you make a conscious decision to either move to a area where you wouldn't be about to vote, or if raised there stay in a area where you wouldn't be about to vote.

I drive 19 miles between my home and place of work, if I worked in DC, I'd be able to vote.

That’s bullcrap. DC is home to thousands of people who were born and raised in DC. Many of them are quite ingrained in the neighborhoods. Some of them are quite poor...utterly dirt poor. Many of them are not really...well equipped to relocate. Your statement is ignorant and callous.

 

[Arpy]

^ people shouldn’t be asked to move or if so then also bear the brunt of the cost. DC can either become a state or part of Maryland. Not being represented is just plain wrong.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The only reason it’s not already a state is the republicans don’t want to create two more blue Senate seats.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Unfortunately, you're right.

Not being represented is just plain wrong.

DC residents (which, BTW, it was never intended to have) not only have no representation in Congress, their actual city government is pretty much worthless, as Congress can overturn anything it does. What passes for local government in DC exists purely at the whim of the Feds.

And I hate to keep harping on this, but retrocession is never going to happen, since Maryland doesn't want DC back. That would be easier than statehood, but Marylanders won't allow it. So that's out.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Alright, the whole "DC should secede from the Union" or whatever the hell you guys are talking about had been lying fallow for like 2-1/2 weeks...if you wanna resurrect it, take it to Miscellaneous.

 

[Shawnster]

So a goid question is, what is the federation government like? We attribute it to American republic system with a president, council, and maybe a legislative branch of some sort.
What if the counsel is like the UN ruling councel, and each "Spicies" gets 1 vote I.e. 1 human, 1 vulcan, etc. Regardless of amount of colonies etc. So 150 member soicies, 150 member Council.
Now could have a "house of representatives" type of lower body that has a represinative from every member world and colony, and if able protectorate representative. This way, each individual world would be represented in some way. And maybe the counsel members are confirmed by the house that represents each speces, ie all human worlds and colonies would vote for the 1 human council rep.
This way all worlds would be represented in the federation, not just the main human, vulcan etc. World's.

I've never seen the Federation president's position as important or powerful as the US President. Seems like the Federation president is more like the president or chairman of the council. However, it appears Memory Alpha disagrees with me.

From Memory Alpha: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/United_Federation_of_Planets
The Federation's government was structured as that of a representative republic, with much of its facilities located on Earth. (TOS: "Amok Time"; DS9: "Rapture"; VOY: "In the Flesh"; Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home)

The exact nature of the government of the Federation has never been made clear on screen. From the information available, the United Federation of Planets would appear to have been a constitutional representative republic, to and in which constituent members delegate some of their sovereignty, who participated in a legislature known as the Federation Council, elected a chief executive known as the Federation President, and which were ostensibly balanced by a judiciary headed by a Federation Supreme Court.

 

[Tenacity]

The Federation's government was structured as that of a representative republic, with much of its facilities located on Earth.

I disagree with memory alpha. The federation was more a grouping of sovereign planets, there's no indication that once a part of the federation that the planets lose any power to a central entity.

You can't point to the UN, or NATO, or the EU, and say it just like this. But looks like the US even less.

 

[Henoch]

It looks like the Vulcans, Andorians, etc. tend to go along with most things especially if it's mostly the humans who are putting their lives on the line. (Just my observation from all the series.)