FEDERATION SPACE

[bismarck_1892]

To add to the many threads on this forum regarding the somewhat inconceivable vision of Trek, what's the deal with space territory? How can there be Federation space, Romulan space, Klingon space? Is it so hard for the writers to think three dimensionally? Is it not more realistic (and more interesting as a writting tool) to view solar systems as islands (dominated by a certain power) surrounded by neutral space? How can any Trek species control entire sectors? They can't claim every planet in the sector?

 

[zenophite]

Actually the only problem i have with it is how can they enforce/secure the intervening space?

 

[Sisu]

By putting one starship in each sector, of course! That means that Kirk, or Picard, is able to be embroiled in the Adventure of the Week.

 

[zenophite]

Sisu said:
By putting one starship in each sector, of course! That means that Kirk, or Picard, is able to be embroiled in the Adventure of the Week.

Of course how silly of me!

 

[C.E. Evans]

It doesn't matter if it's two-dimensions or three. The region that a government occupies is considered its territory, so it makes sense that planets and star systems within that region would be considered the territory of its particular government.

That being said, I also believe that there are many planets and systems within Federation space that are independent--they aren't actually members of the Federation for various reasons, but they remain under the protection of the Federation and Starfleet due to their location within their territory.

But as far as trying to control a vast region of space, I actually don't think it's possible unless one has a fleet of several billion starships. It's for this reason that treaties are perhaps so important in establishing borders between neighboring governments. Starfleet may have ships assigned to patrol these borders but it's totally impossible to prevent anyone from violating them. When such incursions do occur, Starfleet has to mobilize whatever ships are the closest to intercept before the intruder reaches the deeper regions of the Federation, IMO.

 

[Braxton]

How can any country on this planet 'control' their land? It's the same thing as saying "how can the [insert race] control an entire sector in space?" Because it was established via a treaty (or some event). All sides agree to a 'everything in this area is mine to govern, this is yours', etc.

 

[Timo]

The Star Trek universe is very "territory-friendly" in this sense. In the general case, Trek sensors can readily detect the presence of intruding vessels in the deep space between the friendly star systems. Trek ships can also intercept such intruders in a matter of hours or at most days. And it is logistically possible for Trek cultures to erect sensor networks large enough to cover so much borderspace that actual "fortified borders" can be created, and to build sufficiently many ships to catch even individual penetrators.

There is always the possibility of penetration by stealth, even in Trek: entire Klingon conquest fleets can traverse UFP space or space UFP would like to think of as its own playground, unnoticed and uncontested, on their way to conquer Cardassia. But warp and subspace sensors make it practically possible to at least have some citadels of "defended empty space", and thus politically plausible to declare vast swaths of space as "belonging to political entity X".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[UnknownSample]

Anyone could pass into the Neutral Zone without being detected for a long time. They could sometimes even pass into Romulan space, for awhile. This was with a lot of outposts there, too.

They'd have to lay claim to space between Fed worlds, usually. They can't let Romulans pass between here and Alpha Centauri, say. They can't have impenetrable borders any more than we can now, though.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

3D space can certainly be claimed by various empires and federations - it's just hard to depict accurately on 2D maps, that's all.

The more interesting issue is how these claims are enforced. In a way, the problem of enforcing a claim on a whooole lot of mainly empty space is what Star Trek is all about. Ultimately the claim is validated by the ability & willingness of the claimant to start shooting at interlopers. That's what Kirk's job really boiled down to (plus grabbing more territory during lulls in fighting).

Which is why it always struck me as funny when the Feds get huffy at aliens who claim THEY are trespassing and start shooting at THEM.

 

[JD]

I always assumed that the planets the groups controlled where generally contained to one specific area and that that was their "territory". As for protecting it, it seems to me like they generally keep starbases that use sensors to keep an eye on the borders to make sure someone doesn't come in.

 

[UnknownSample]

In a way, the problem of enforcing a claim on a whooole lot of mainly empty space is what Star Trek is all about.

I like this remark. I like it when people find a whole new (legitmate) way of framing a situation, in just one sentence.

 

[STARTREK11]

UnknownSample said:

In a way, the problem of enforcing a claim on a whooole lot of mainly empty space is what Star Trek is all about.

I like this remark. I like it when people find a whole new (legitmate) way of framing a situation, in just one sentence.

Dolly Parton's "Islands in the Stream"

 

[Hofner]

I'm fuzzy on the details but in "Mudd's Women" the Enterprise seemed to have some kind of authority over the region Mudd was travelling in. I'm assuming it was interstellar space rather than being limited to star systems..

Robert

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Every star system in Federation space has several ships/starbases stationed there aswell as a huge sensor array orbiting the stars capable of picking up any ship within Federation space between star systems (sensors in trek reach very far), when a ship is detected crossing the Federation border ships are deployed to intercept.

That simple.

 

[votd]

There must be a delay though, say the Federation claim territory - how long does it take them to build a huge starbase in the region to track incursions?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

votd said:
There must be a delay though, say the Federation claim territory - how long does it take them to build a huge starbase in the region to track incursions?

They dont have to build a starbase just deploy a sensor array and whilst the deployment is happening starships could use their own sensors and border patrols to ensure the security of the Federation border.

 

[Timo]

To be fair, we have seen many seemingly central UFP locations devoid of starship resources. Even those starbases located at strategic hot spots, like the one where Picard went begging for blockade ships in "Redemption", only have a handful of vessels available at a given time, far too few for meaningful military action like the episode establishes. The modus operandi of Starfleet seems to be never to stockpile starships in tactically sufficient numbers, but rather to constantly deploy all vessels on "civilian" tasks, and then summon them back for military action as the need arises.

This would probably give a reaction time of a week for a serious border incursion anywhere away from the very core of the UFP... And quite possibly a reaction time of two years against the Dominion threat, as we saw in DS9!

Usually, only a single vessel is available for intercept, if the hero vessels we followed in TOS and TNG are any indication. And usually, that's enough, unless the enemy is really serious about it. Even if Starfleet can only send one ship at a time, the enemy will know about the retaliation that will come a few days later, and the even bigger one that can be arranged a few weeks later, let alone the really big can of whupass that is opened after Starfleet has had a few months to get its act together.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jarvis]

Who owns Dantooine?