Federation Cloaking Device

[MatthiasRussell]

I can't get the idea of a federation cloaking device out of my head, not for tactical reasons but for temporal and prime directive ones.

How many times is the federation studying prewarp civilizations or trying to prevent their discovery by such civilizations. God forbid the enterprise is in the solar system of such a planet who happen to have space probes and telescopes and see the ship. Or how often does a ship end up pulled back in time and is orbiting present day earth or another ufp planet. Would be nice to cloak the ship so as not to change time.

Furthermore, with the Romulan government in ruin after NEM, are treaties with that government still valid? When Romulus joins the Typhon Pact and shares cloak technology with other members, aren't they violating the Treaty of Algeron and thus invalidating it. Or maybe when Romulus is destroyed by Hobus and their society destroyed the gloves can come off.

Doesn't starfleet need cloaks for peaceful reasons?

 

[Unicron]

Personally, I've never liked the meager and largely undefined restrictions we've seen on the Feds not being able to use or produce cloaks. The real reason for that was that Gene Roddenberry didn't want the good guys to be "sneaky," but as you point out there are some potential uses of the technology that are more exploratory than military.

And even on the military side, Gene's idea doesn't mesh with how cloaks were used the later shows as Trek-era stealth; the Federation would be foolish not to apply that, even if it were on a more limited level than the Romulans or other races. It's kind of like saying that because the U.S. is a democratic nation and generally gets along with most other nations, we shouldn't be allowed to build nukes as a deterrent defense. We wouldn't want to seem "aggressive."

The alliance with the Klingons also seems like a convenient way to get around the Treaty of Algeron when necessary, as Picard and Data do in "Reunification" by getting passage on a Klingon ship. There doesn't seem to be much the Romulans could do to stop such actions short of war, and they'd likely have to fight both powers.

 

[Timo]

To be sure, "cloak" is probably a very specific military technology, just like "intermediate range ballistic missile" is. Major powers will bicker over the use of this specific technology while acknowledging that everybody already freely operates other types of invisibility tech, just like everybody already operates other types of ballistic missile, ranging from simple artillery rockets to weapons capable of achieving orbit.

Invisibility is a good way to observe primitive societies, yes. But this implicitly means that one can use primitive invisibility against these societies (such as holography, which is essentially a domestic entertainment technology in the Federation). It's only advanced invisibility that the Romulans are worried about, and that's the type of tech they define as casus belli.

Starfleet ships can be invisible when they want to: standard shields can hide them from primitive radar, as we saw happen in TOS and VOY. Starfleet surface agents can hide behind holograms, as seen in at least one episode and one movie. But mere invisibility as such is not a big combat advantage, as witnessed e.g. with the Jem'Hadar who apparently cannot (or do not bother to) fight when invisible, or the Klingons who decloak their ships to fight.

Only a truly unobservable starship is a decisive factor, and even then mostly in espionage and other infiltration, not in outright combat. And Starfleet really doesn't have much reason to go to war with Romulus on the "right" to have true unobservability tech. If Starfleet wants to have a couple of truly unobservable spyships, it can build them in secret, and not tell the Romulans. There's no real need to mass-produce them in a manner that would alert the Romulans to their existence!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SicOne]

And despite the protestations that Picard made towards the end of "The Pegasus", we never have seen (as far as I can tell) in episode or in print anything that suggests additional negative actions taken by the Romulans against us for "vioalating" the Treaty of Algeron or Admiral Pressman being kicked out of Starfleet in disgrace. To my way of thinking, they let Picard bluster on about upholding the Treaty honorably, then in private decided to let things slide.

 

[Timo]

I doubt the NEM coup would have much effect on the treaty, though. Romulus probably undergoes coups like that every third Tuesday (even if not all of them are the result of a Spartacus uprising); in the NEM coup, the military was the one to emerge on top of things, and they'd certainly want the Algeron cloaking clauses to be observed in perpetuity. Whatever drop they have on Starfleet for having been able to blackmail our heroes into agreeing with Algeron in the first place, it won't have gone away merely because Shinzon assassinated the Senate.

The supernova that erases Romulus will obviously alter things. Star empires must be precarious things to begin with, and loss of a homeworld will probably see their collapse into chaos. In that chaos, there'll be no unified threat to enforce Algeron against the UFP. Although whether Spock's failure to save Romulus will actually ignite a galactic war or not is left untold; he did argue that such a failure would have galaxy-wide implications, going way beyond affecting some petty cloaking treaty.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MatthiasRussell]

Excellent points all around.
I feel when going into the unknown you take every tool available and exercise especially great caution when concerned about contaminating primitive societies. If that is your prime directive, cloaking your communications and visual evidence would be extremely important.

Why can't the treaty only ban use of the technology in tactical situations? Isn't holographic masking basically the same think as cloaking except it only masks within a limited spectrum? With Shinzon overthrowing the Romulan government, isn't the treaty voided with its government overthrown. If not, won't it be when Romulus is destroyed. Perhaps starfleet would start using threw tech then.

I also think Pegasus was realistic in that, even if a peaceful government is not allowed to have certain tactical hardware, they will still secretly develop it.

 

[Unicron]

In Starfleet Command 3, the Romulans stole some holotechnology that had been, to an extent, reverse-engineered from their own cloaking technology and intended to create more advanced tactical holograms, as we saw occasionally on VOY. They used it as an attempt to drive a wedge in the Klingon-Fed alliance by making their ships resemble either a Klingon or Fed vessel and then attacking the other, rather than cloaking the Romulan ship.

 

[Timo]

...OTOH, in ENT, such holocamouflage was suggested to be a more primitive technology than the eventual full invisibility of TOS. Which meshes nicely with the fact that Starfleet freely uses holograms in TNG even though Romulans supposedly don't allow them to operate or possess the latest camouflage tech.

In real-world terms, emitting something, be it completely false images or blurred originals, is probably much easier than emitting nothing. In ENT, the emitting of the visual image of an Andorian or Vulcan or Terran ship wasn't enough to hide the underlying emission of a specific energy signature; later applications of holotech and more advanced cloaking together might overcome that obstacle, but Romulans wouldn't be too concerned about losing their edge when they already have the more useful full invisibility down pat.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SWHouston]

I'm surprised that someone hasn't mentioned the Defiant
yet ! It has a Cloke, but DS9/Bajor is not in Federation
Space, nor is the Station that of Federation Property.

Yet, it is a Federation Vessel,.

 

[brian577]

I'm surprised that someone hasn't mentioned the Defiant
yet ! It has a Cloke, but DS9/Bajor is not in Federation
Space, nor is the Station that of Federation Property.

Yet, it is a Federation Vessel,.

Special arrangement made with the Romulan government in exchange for sensor data on the Dominion with the express understanding that it would only be used in the Gamma Quandrant

 

[Timo]

And curiously enough, that cloak was never really used against the Romulan empire. It was used without permission against the Klingons in "Way of the Warrior", but the Romulans probably rejoiced... And plenty of times against the Dominion in Alpha, mainly after Gamma became inaccessible, but again the Romulans probably had little objection. Worf once tried to use it against Starfleet, even - all the more reason for the Romulans to be happy!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sean Aaron]

I personally fail to see any meaningful difference between the cloaking technology seen in TNG episodes used by observation teams on primitive planets (and *ack* Insurrection) and that used in starships. It does seem pretty arbitrary to me and clearly the Federation will dip their toe in when they see fit (again citing Insurrection).

There may be more practical reasons for not using it though, like energy requirements; maybe using an artificial singularity for power makes for a more stable cloak, but the Federation isn't willing to use that technology because it's more dangerous than the matter-antimatter reactors they use. Given the choice between wish-washy treaty stipulations that are causally pushed aside to serve the plot as needed and an undisclosed techncial/policy reason I'll go with the latter justification.

 

[Timo]

The difference in tech is probably fairly simple: you can see through one with a tricorder (or a VISOR, or if you know what imperfections to look for in a hologram) but not through the other.

That's how it goes with all banned technology: the broad category isn't banned, only specific types and applications. And usually not even the most "severe" ones, but some narrow range in the middle of the spectrum. Such bans are the currency of diplomatic exchanges, and exist more for their trade value than for any practical impact.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sean Aaron]

Insurrection really bugs me though and not just because I think the film is crap for a variety of reasons. The cloak seems almost casual. I mean the whole scenario is a bit extreme for the Federation, but after all the hoop-jumping over the Defiant's cloak you'd expect more to result from it than "it's a cloaked ship!" when they find the holoship. It wouldn't be hard to believe there's cloaked ships in regular use by Starfleet after that (or before it), just that we don't see them.

Then there's that throwaway line in Star Trek IV (or was it III) about having a cloaking device that "cost us a lot" - totally forgotten. I'm not too bent about it to be honest, but the Treaty of Algernon line really rings false for why the Feds just don't use them all the time.

 

[SWHouston]

I'm not sure that the Holoship was Star Fleet's, could it have
been a Son'a vessel ?
I don't understand why they couldn't just have possessed
part of the Planet, why run the Ba'ku off.
And, how did Star Fleet get involved, it was none of their
business to start with.

 

[SicOne]

And curiously enough, that cloak was never really used against the Romulan empire. It was used without permission against the Klingons in "Way of the Warrior", but the Romulans probably rejoiced... And plenty of times against the Dominion in Alpha, mainly after Gamma became inaccessible, but again the Romulans probably had little objection. Worf once tried to use it against Starfleet, even - all the more reason for the Romulans to be happy!

Timo Saloniemi

I don't believe that the Romulans would have let Starfleet utilize a cloaking technology without them (the Roms) having the means to detect it.

Nor would Starfleet be foolish enough to try and use the cloaking device for something sneaky that acts contrary to Romulan interests (such as using the cloak to spy on some Romulan territory that they'd never let the Federation near, such as an advanced shipyard or Tal Shiar installation), for concern that they'd get caught doing it and then that would definitely be the end of Romulan cooperation.

Plus, at least at the beginning, they had Subcommander T'Rul to ride herd on the whole operation. We didn't see much of her aside from "The Search" episodes, but that doesn't mean that she wasn't there, offscreen, making sure Romulan "interests" were represented...

 

[SicOne]

^ By which I mean I agree with you, Timo, and here's the reinforcement.

 

[Jonathan]

What about the Pegasus...Imagine the Federation, a major power in the Alpha Quadrant that doesn't use cloaking technology makes the one of the most prefect cloaking devices seen on the show...a bit strange, don't you think...Me personally, I would allow the Feds to use the cloaking technology, but limit it's usage.

 

[Deks]

I don't see why the Federation wouldn't be able to use cloacking tech.
I realize Roddenbery's argument that our heroes don't go around the galaxy sneaking around, however, in certain situations such as observing a pre-warp culture, or temporal issues where ships are thrown into the past and whatnot... those kinds of uses would be prudent, not to mention during war-time.

A Federation phase-cloack was apparently a device in it's own category.
The Feds did it at least 12 years well before the Klingons and Romulans (officially) tried it (albeit with an explosive setback - which was promptly corrected).

The Warbird in the asteroid field was apparently oblivious to the Enterprise-D (which was obviously confirmed by Data's scans at the time), indicating the technology was beyond detection range of Romulan sensors and of course with phasing properties making a ship immune to conventional weapons and similar aspects.

If the Feds establish a mutually beneficial treaty with the Romulans, I would surmize that they would be able to develop this technology further.
However, the Federation most likely pursues development of forbidden technology in order to develop a countermeasure should they encounter races that use them (and for possible implementation in the field if the treaties prohibiting them from using the said techs goes under).

 

[Sean Aaron]

I'm not sure that the Holoship was Star Fleet's, could it have
been a Son'a vessel ?
I don't understand why they couldn't just have possessed
part of the Planet, why run the Ba'ku off.
And, how did Star Fleet get involved, it was none of their
business to start with.

It was, Picard makes a point of saying "this is a Federation vessel" after it decloaks. Regarding your other points, check out Harry Plinkett's review of Insurrection. If it was a boat it wouldn't make it past drydock from the holes.