Fearful Symmetry Review Thread (spoilers)
- Thread starter Brendan Moody
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I was definitely excited when this book finally came out...i pre ordered it made sure it was the first book i read....I did enjoy side one, side 2 on the other hand...it was a bit of a let down, i was expecting this story to continue but maybe even in the mirror universe or something but it was all one sided set way before the main part of the story. I hope the next book isnt much like that, but ill still read it
I litteraly just finished side one a couple minuets ago, and I've got pretty mixed feelings on it right now. On one hand, I really like the stuff that stuff that it set up for the future of the relaunch, and I thought it did a pretty good job of answering alot of the questions left over from Warpath. But, on the other hand I'm kinda dissapointed that it didn't really do much more than that. All of the other elements of the book are really good though. The characterisations are good, the dialouge if well written, and I really liked the writing style of the book. So I think overall the good outwayed the bad. Final Rating: 8.0/10
I have just started Fearful Symmetry and she managed to get me interested already within the first few pages. That could be a much better read for me than I expected, which is great.
Yes, I agree with you and I am looking forward to the other DS9R novel, too.
)
Speaking for the Memory Beta community, thanks for the links!
This is my review of "Fearful Symmetry". It definitely contains spoilers:
After I was left with a multiple Kira storyline and confused about which Iliana Ghemor is which after “Warpath”, for the first time I wasn`t looking forward to the next DS9 Relaunch book because I learned before getting it that “Fearful Symmetry” is indeed mainly following part of the multiple Kira story, namely the Iliana Ghemor confusion.
To my big surprise, I enjoyed the book from the beginning and now that I have finished it I must say, it is excellent. I was very close to skip the book but now I am very glad that I gave it the chance it deserves. The big plus is, this time I wasn`t confused. Olivia Woods explained the background Warpath needed in order not to only understand the part of the ongoing storyline dealing with the two Ilianas but also to be able to actually care. The book is short, especially compared to other recent Star Trek books, but to me it was definitely worth it. If you are not sensitive about spoilers, I would even recommend to read “Fearful Symmetry” before “Warpath”. I think I would have enjoyed and appreciated “Warpath” much more that way round and I intend to start reading “Warpath” again, at least until “Greater than the Sum” arrives.
I have never seen a “flip book” before and it seems, also not my SF and comics shop where I got it from. It is an interesting idea and it works very well. After finishing the book I went back and compared the part in both stories where the story threads intersected. Especially at these points it was interesting to compare the differences but also the similarities. It is a clever book and now I am hoping we will see the flip book format again.
I read “Side One” first but want to start my review with “Side Two”. This second part of the book tells the story of the Cardassian Iliana Ghemor who was surgically altered to not only look like Kira but also to assume her identity in order to infiltrate the Bajoran resistance.
I found the story to be very touching and thought provoking. First of all, I read about Iliana the victim. The way the Cardassian state manipulated her was chilling but not surprising. I also expected it from the beginning that the death of Iliana`s fiancé was arranged in order to prompt her to join the Obsidian Order. Ataan`s messages to her showed very well the twisted, sick logic Cardassians used to justify their crimes. I could also see how Iliana`s personality was poisoned by it.
On the other hand, sheltered or not, Iliana especially showed at the beginning that she was not a mindless follower but a critical thinker. She was able to make her own decisions and choices. As much as I felt for her at times, I refuse to excuse bad choices with faults in the upbringing of the person. Yes, she was manipulated but, no, nobody forced her to join the Obsidian Order, give up her art career and choose to become a different person in many ways.
I remember discussions about Section 31 and the argument some people use that all members of that organization are terrorists. To me, the Obsidian Order was something very similar and this example is one of many showing that this argument is not working. It is not that simple.
Illiana allowed herself to be driven further and further away from the person she was and being turned more and more into a killer loyal to the State. But for becoming the madwoman I remember from “Warpath”, something very drastic had to have happened.
“Terok Nor” (at least the two books I have read so far of that trilogy) showed very clearly that Dukat was a villain from the beginning. But it also showed that this was happening in stages, that he became progressively more ruthless over the years. I remember that after he crossed another threshold by brutalizing Kira`s mother, his comfort woman, he didn`t like what he was seeing in the mirror and wanted to get rid of that memory by killing her. I would never have expected that he kept Iliana for years as his sex slave and punching bag whenever he felt the need to get rid of some steam.
It does not only show Dukat`s way into darkness but also progressively into madness. Kira`s mother was his pet, his toy but in his own twisted way he cared for her. Although he brutalized Bajor and its people, his way of thinking was that it is nevertheless happening for their own good and he expected some gratitude and recognition for it, which never came. With Meru, it was the same. He felt betrayed by the ungrateful Bajorans and his ungrateful comfort woman. Her daughter, Kira, disappointed him too by being a resistance fighter – or from Dukat`s perspective, a terrorist. I think this background explains Dukat`s actions. He couldn`t kill the real Kira or order her to be killed like her mother. He didn`t want to harm her but nevertheless, she needed to be punished.
I would never have expected that DS9 Relaunch would take Dukat that far down the abyss but it makes a lot of sense. I certainly understand the Iliana I met in Warpath a lot better because that this woman is completely mad by now is not surprising at all. Knowing her background, it makes this character so much more tragic. On some level, I wish she could be helped and healed but on another level I am afraid that she is beyond help. First of all, she needs to be stopped.
I wonder if the real Kira will find out from her surviving prisoner what happened to Iliana. I think she should, also because it would make dealing with her more complex and interesting from a story telling perspective. (Or was this already mentioned before and I forgot about it?)
This brings me to “Side One”. I could understand very well the tremendous stress the real Kira was under, physically and psychologically. Kira is a passionate woman and sometimes this causes her to lash out at others without thinking things through properly. I could understand her initial attitude towards Vaughn but nevertheless, it was wrong and Vaughn, who has his own problems like his tendency to worry about his usefulness, reacted more strongly than what is reasonable, too. I am not so sure if Vaughn really recovered from feeling hurt but it was good to see that Kira recognized her mistake.
The revelation that the MU Sisko is still alive and, according to the Prophets, needs to be convinced to accept his role as Emissary is very interesting and I am very curious how things will develop. I can understand why this mission is so important and to a degree why Vaughn is the natural candidate to do it. But in what way is Sisko betraying him? I am sure, we will find out but it makes me wonder already. I know Sisko is able to make very painful decisions, also sacrificing his own conscience, when he thinks that the end justifies the means and the stakes are high enough. I hope this is not the start of another tragic road for Vaughn because I think he has suffered enough in the past. Vaughn is a very experienced man and my hope is, whatever Sisko has planned for him, he can turn it around into something positive, also for himself. I most definitely don`t want him to be killed off. After Calhoun, he is my favourite Star Trek book-only character.
It was good to see that Ro is starting to overcome her physical and psychological problems as well. I want to add at the end of my review that I enjoyed the part with Quark and his bar because inserting a bit of humour into this serious book was a good idea. And I really like Treir. She is a great character.
It is good to know, too, that next year I can look forward to two more DS9 Relaunch books!
After I was left with a multiple Kira storyline and confused about which Iliana Ghemor is which after “Warpath”, for the first time I wasn`t looking forward to the next DS9 Relaunch book because I learned before getting it that “Fearful Symmetry” is indeed mainly following part of the multiple Kira story, namely the Iliana Ghemor confusion.
To my big surprise, I enjoyed the book from the beginning and now that I have finished it I must say, it is excellent. I was very close to skip the book but now I am very glad that I gave it the chance it deserves. The big plus is, this time I wasn`t confused. Olivia Woods explained the background Warpath needed in order not to only understand the part of the ongoing storyline dealing with the two Ilianas but also to be able to actually care. The book is short, especially compared to other recent Star Trek books, but to me it was definitely worth it. If you are not sensitive about spoilers, I would even recommend to read “Fearful Symmetry” before “Warpath”. I think I would have enjoyed and appreciated “Warpath” much more that way round and I intend to start reading “Warpath” again, at least until “Greater than the Sum” arrives.
I have never seen a “flip book” before and it seems, also not my SF and comics shop where I got it from. It is an interesting idea and it works very well. After finishing the book I went back and compared the part in both stories where the story threads intersected. Especially at these points it was interesting to compare the differences but also the similarities. It is a clever book and now I am hoping we will see the flip book format again.
I read “Side One” first but want to start my review with “Side Two”. This second part of the book tells the story of the Cardassian Iliana Ghemor who was surgically altered to not only look like Kira but also to assume her identity in order to infiltrate the Bajoran resistance.
I found the story to be very touching and thought provoking. First of all, I read about Iliana the victim. The way the Cardassian state manipulated her was chilling but not surprising. I also expected it from the beginning that the death of Iliana`s fiancé was arranged in order to prompt her to join the Obsidian Order. Ataan`s messages to her showed very well the twisted, sick logic Cardassians used to justify their crimes. I could also see how Iliana`s personality was poisoned by it.
On the other hand, sheltered or not, Iliana especially showed at the beginning that she was not a mindless follower but a critical thinker. She was able to make her own decisions and choices. As much as I felt for her at times, I refuse to excuse bad choices with faults in the upbringing of the person. Yes, she was manipulated but, no, nobody forced her to join the Obsidian Order, give up her art career and choose to become a different person in many ways.
I remember discussions about Section 31 and the argument some people use that all members of that organization are terrorists. To me, the Obsidian Order was something very similar and this example is one of many showing that this argument is not working. It is not that simple.
Illiana allowed herself to be driven further and further away from the person she was and being turned more and more into a killer loyal to the State. But for becoming the madwoman I remember from “Warpath”, something very drastic had to have happened.
“Terok Nor” (at least the two books I have read so far of that trilogy) showed very clearly that Dukat was a villain from the beginning. But it also showed that this was happening in stages, that he became progressively more ruthless over the years. I remember that after he crossed another threshold by brutalizing Kira`s mother, his comfort woman, he didn`t like what he was seeing in the mirror and wanted to get rid of that memory by killing her. I would never have expected that he kept Iliana for years as his sex slave and punching bag whenever he felt the need to get rid of some steam.
It does not only show Dukat`s way into darkness but also progressively into madness. Kira`s mother was his pet, his toy but in his own twisted way he cared for her. Although he brutalized Bajor and its people, his way of thinking was that it is nevertheless happening for their own good and he expected some gratitude and recognition for it, which never came. With Meru, it was the same. He felt betrayed by the ungrateful Bajorans and his ungrateful comfort woman. Her daughter, Kira, disappointed him too by being a resistance fighter – or from Dukat`s perspective, a terrorist. I think this background explains Dukat`s actions. He couldn`t kill the real Kira or order her to be killed like her mother. He didn`t want to harm her but nevertheless, she needed to be punished.
I would never have expected that DS9 Relaunch would take Dukat that far down the abyss but it makes a lot of sense. I certainly understand the Iliana I met in Warpath a lot better because that this woman is completely mad by now is not surprising at all. Knowing her background, it makes this character so much more tragic. On some level, I wish she could be helped and healed but on another level I am afraid that she is beyond help. First of all, she needs to be stopped.
I wonder if the real Kira will find out from her surviving prisoner what happened to Iliana. I think she should, also because it would make dealing with her more complex and interesting from a story telling perspective. (Or was this already mentioned before and I forgot about it?)
This brings me to “Side One”. I could understand very well the tremendous stress the real Kira was under, physically and psychologically. Kira is a passionate woman and sometimes this causes her to lash out at others without thinking things through properly. I could understand her initial attitude towards Vaughn but nevertheless, it was wrong and Vaughn, who has his own problems like his tendency to worry about his usefulness, reacted more strongly than what is reasonable, too. I am not so sure if Vaughn really recovered from feeling hurt but it was good to see that Kira recognized her mistake.
The revelation that the MU Sisko is still alive and, according to the Prophets, needs to be convinced to accept his role as Emissary is very interesting and I am very curious how things will develop. I can understand why this mission is so important and to a degree why Vaughn is the natural candidate to do it. But in what way is Sisko betraying him? I am sure, we will find out but it makes me wonder already. I know Sisko is able to make very painful decisions, also sacrificing his own conscience, when he thinks that the end justifies the means and the stakes are high enough. I hope this is not the start of another tragic road for Vaughn because I think he has suffered enough in the past. Vaughn is a very experienced man and my hope is, whatever Sisko has planned for him, he can turn it around into something positive, also for himself. I most definitely don`t want him to be killed off. After Calhoun, he is my favourite Star Trek book-only character.
It was good to see that Ro is starting to overcome her physical and psychological problems as well. I want to add at the end of my review that I enjoyed the part with Quark and his bar because inserting a bit of humour into this serious book was a good idea. And I really like Treir. She is a great character.
It is good to know, too, that next year I can look forward to two more DS9 Relaunch books!
This book certainly made the lines about Dukat's 'new comfort woman' in Dawn of the Eagles more interesting.
I just finished reading "Fearful Symmestry," and found it to be a solid novel with, yes, some predictable outcomes (particularly in "Side Two"). I also found the "flip" nature of the novel to be kind of neat. None of the other books in my library has that.
That said, I wish there had been more plot advancement. A recap of earlier events in a preface of sorts would have been nice, too, since it's been more than two years since "Warpath" came out. I'm 34 now and, let's face it, my memory ain't what it used to be.
Gatekeeper
That said, I wish there had been more plot advancement. A recap of earlier events in a preface of sorts would have been nice, too, since it's been more than two years since "Warpath" came out. I'm 34 now and, let's face it, my memory ain't what it used to be.
Gatekeeper
I just finished Fearful Symmetry about 10 minutes ago, and I'm really not sure how I feel about it, since there are a lot of different thoughts going through my head.
On one hand, I did enjoy it. It was interesting to see all the different Siskos, and how little or how much it would have taken for ours to end up like them. And while Side One didn't do much to really move things forward, enough was revealed about previous events, like the motive behind much of what occurred in Warpath and the Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space 9 Bajor entry.
However, on the other hand, parts of me sort of just blankly stared whenever an event occurred, usually in the Side Two section. At first, I really enjoyed seeing how Iliana Ghemor become who she ended up being, as well as what she did before becoming Obsidian Order. However, a lot of it was expected. Did anyone really expect Entek to just wait and let Iliana come around and say "Hmm, he was right about me and my life. Let me inject some purpose into it." Considering how nasty and unscrupulous the Order is, it was no surprise. It cheapened her epiphany about everything, and didn't seem to really fully fit. Being the awesome agent that she eventually became, it surprised me that she didn't attempt to dig deeper into the event. I know it was tragic and emotionally upsetting, but once she became Vulco-Cardassian Obsidian Blatch, I would have thought she might want to know more details beyond "Bombing and death". Oh well.
I'm torn into pieces (broken up, deep inside...n/m) about Dukat. I hated him, and still do. But I was blown away by how much of a sick, twisted mother****** he is. (Considering that I finished Seeds of Dissent not too long ago, it created quite a revoltingly intriguing inner dialogue about how things played out). I will admit that it was somewhat poignant, the bit about how Dukat did to Kiriana Ghemerys what he wanted to do to Bajor, to Kira Meru and the real Kira Nerys, but couldn't. It also sickened me that he recorded his "visits" with her.
There are still some questions that I have, though:
Was Dukat behind the experimentations on the Jem'Hadar by the Cardassian scientists on Harkoum? I can't recall if it was ever said, either in Warpath or here.
What happened to those two Cardassian scientists?
(Piggybacking on most of the others who have read Fearful Symmetry) What betrayal exactly is Sisko doing to Vaughn?
There are probably others, but that's all I have for now. Because it was thought-provoking and, overall, a really good read, I recommend it to others, and if I gave number grades, probably an 8 or 8.5.
On one hand, I did enjoy it. It was interesting to see all the different Siskos, and how little or how much it would have taken for ours to end up like them. And while Side One didn't do much to really move things forward, enough was revealed about previous events, like the motive behind much of what occurred in Warpath and the Worlds of Star Trek: Deep Space 9 Bajor entry.
However, on the other hand, parts of me sort of just blankly stared whenever an event occurred, usually in the Side Two section. At first, I really enjoyed seeing how Iliana Ghemor become who she ended up being, as well as what she did before becoming Obsidian Order. However, a lot of it was expected. Did anyone really expect Entek to just wait and let Iliana come around and say "Hmm, he was right about me and my life. Let me inject some purpose into it." Considering how nasty and unscrupulous the Order is, it was no surprise. It cheapened her epiphany about everything, and didn't seem to really fully fit. Being the awesome agent that she eventually became, it surprised me that she didn't attempt to dig deeper into the event. I know it was tragic and emotionally upsetting, but once she became Vulco-Cardassian Obsidian Blatch, I would have thought she might want to know more details beyond "Bombing and death". Oh well.
I'm torn into pieces (broken up, deep inside...n/m) about Dukat. I hated him, and still do. But I was blown away by how much of a sick, twisted mother****** he is. (Considering that I finished Seeds of Dissent not too long ago, it created quite a revoltingly intriguing inner dialogue about how things played out). I will admit that it was somewhat poignant, the bit about how Dukat did to Kiriana Ghemerys what he wanted to do to Bajor, to Kira Meru and the real Kira Nerys, but couldn't. It also sickened me that he recorded his "visits" with her.
There are still some questions that I have, though:
Was Dukat behind the experimentations on the Jem'Hadar by the Cardassian scientists on Harkoum? I can't recall if it was ever said, either in Warpath or here.
What happened to those two Cardassian scientists?
(Piggybacking on most of the others who have read Fearful Symmetry) What betrayal exactly is Sisko doing to Vaughn?
There are probably others, but that's all I have for now. Because it was thought-provoking and, overall, a really good read, I recommend it to others, and if I gave number grades, probably an 8 or 8.5.
On the whole I quite enjoyed Fearful Symmetry. In general, loved the stories and the execution. I'll echo the others in saying that it's just too bad it was designed to be such a short work. It is a let down after waiting so long, especially with there being something going on with Sisko that is also not revealed.
The content with Iliana is incredibly dark, honestly not something I was expecting but was very intriguing. Kind of creepy to think back on all the times Dukat had scenes with Kira over the entire show's run, now knowing what he had going on the side. Ironically even more taboo considering that it's a Cardassian woman he's really doing this to.
I do find it somewhat sad however that the Dukat we saw in the show's first couple seasons is now gone. Someone intelligent and charming whom you didn't know if he'd go one way or the other. He could be an ally or an enemy. I liked the ambiguity. Now he's an irredeemable monster through and through, retconned all the way back to his beginnings (as seen in Day of the Vipers). Kind of an easy way out, but whatever, this is a landslide the show began all the way back in Waltz anyway.
The flipbook approach. Total gimmick for me. Did not really add to the reading experience. While the narrative is Tolkienish this way, running the two side by side I think could have been just as effective.
Question #1: Er, did Dukat ever have time to leave Bajor when the Pagh-wraiths made him up to look Bajoran? That really jumped out at me.
Question #2: So Dukat's threat to Entek was legit? I'm honestly not remembering anything from that episode. Not surprisingly, I thought the episode was forgettable although truth be told, I haven't seen an hour of Trek in many years now. I took his threat to allege Entek's involvement with the bombing to be entirely made up. However, I guess that's why Entek seemed to give her up so easily.
The content with Iliana is incredibly dark, honestly not something I was expecting but was very intriguing. Kind of creepy to think back on all the times Dukat had scenes with Kira over the entire show's run, now knowing what he had going on the side. Ironically even more taboo considering that it's a Cardassian woman he's really doing this to.
I do find it somewhat sad however that the Dukat we saw in the show's first couple seasons is now gone. Someone intelligent and charming whom you didn't know if he'd go one way or the other. He could be an ally or an enemy. I liked the ambiguity. Now he's an irredeemable monster through and through, retconned all the way back to his beginnings (as seen in Day of the Vipers). Kind of an easy way out, but whatever, this is a landslide the show began all the way back in Waltz anyway.
The flipbook approach. Total gimmick for me. Did not really add to the reading experience. While the narrative is Tolkienish this way, running the two side by side I think could have been just as effective.
Question #1: Er, did Dukat ever have time to leave Bajor when the Pagh-wraiths made him up to look Bajoran? That really jumped out at me.
Question #2: So Dukat's threat to Entek was legit? I'm honestly not remembering anything from that episode. Not surprisingly, I thought the episode was forgettable although truth be told, I haven't seen an hour of Trek in many years now. I took his threat to allege Entek's involvement with the bombing to be entirely made up. However, I guess that's why Entek seemed to give her up so easily.
But it wasn't designed that way. Actually what happened is that the story Olivia Woods was telling ballooned into a massive tale that couldn't have been done justice if she'd been forced to get the whole thing ready by this summer. So the decision was made to split it in two, to get the first part of the story out there as Fearful Symmetry rather than keep the fans waiting even longer, and then do the rest of the story as The Soul Key next year.
What? The Pah-wraiths didn't do that. Dukat came to Damar on Cardassia Prime and asked for help with his plan. Damar had Cardassian plastic surgeons transform Dukat into his Bajoran appearance.
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