Fear the Walking Dead Season 4 discussion and spoilers.

[Jayson1]

I thought the final was good but I had problems getting over how easy it was for the zombies to overtake a Baseball stadium. To me defending a baseball stadium would be much easier than they made it look. For starters zombies can't climb so just going up into the stands should keep you protected. Also just getting into the stands would be next to impossible. You got walls seperating the field from the stand and those kind of walls don't fall down.
Also why not keep weapons up there? Once you have them all on the field you have the high ground and you can just shoot them and toss bombs and grenades at them erasing the threat.
I also don' understand why you keep the parking lot intact. Just load that place up with old cars or any kind of junk and make it impossible except for maybe one lane out of the stadium to get your vehicles out to basically prevent others from pulling up in their vehicles and causing trouble.

Jason

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Filed in the "Jayson1 Makes Too Much Sense for Fear the Walking Dead's New Showrunners" drawer:

I thought the final was good but I had problems getting over how easy it was for the zombies to overtake a Baseball stadium. To me defending a baseball stadium would be much easier than they made it look.

Agreed; most baseball stadiums do not have a sliding gate from the field straight to the parking lot, which is how the area was structured for the finale. All too convenient.

For starters zombies can't climb so just going up into the stands should keep you protected. Also just getting into the stands would be next to impossible. You got walls seperating the field from the stand and those kind of walls don't fall down.

Additionally, the viewer's box could be sealed off in the event the zombies slowly climbed the steps, but as you point out:

Also why not keep weapons up there? Once you have them all on the field you have the high ground and you can just shoot them and toss bombs and grenades at them erasing the threat.

Well, if you've read the recent showrunner interviews, one ca only get the impression that there was no sense in the decision to kill off Madison. She had advantages, knew the layout enough to lead the zombies anywhere, and above all else, the fake TV and movie "death nobility" is ever a tool taking the viewer out of the scene, as no normal human will just stand against a fence, calmly waiting to be eaten alive. That's not human instinct, or Madison satisfied that her kids were safe. Its a thin attempt at being tragic, but it paled in comparison to the deaths of Hershel, Lori or T-Dog; all of those deaths were truly unavoidable, so the hopelessness of other characters knowing they could not be saved, coupled with the real impact on others (as opposed to blood-hunting like the FTWD gang) made the send-offs memorable and character-shaping.

That did not happen here. In fact, Morgan had a greater impact on Alicia (in reference to Madison's death) than Madison herself. That's a major failing on the part of the showrunners.

 

[Galileo7]

I am glad that Morgan has joined FTWD. Although, I am cautious about both WD series going forward finding their way.

 

[crookeddy]

About the falling of the stadium - it only feel because the inhabitants decided to flee. And they decided to flee because they were worried that the zombies would walk through the burning oil, and they the whole stadium ablaze. Had the inhabitants not tried to flee, the stadium would likely have held.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Well..that mass number....how would they have led them away? If that hoard still stayed, it would be impossible to leave. even with all of the supplies, and potential crops, they would run out long before the Walkers stumbled off.

And same with trying to escape... there's no way to leave...you'd die of starvaton eventually.

I still have a hard time buying Madison going from cutthroat opportunist last season to now being the good person at the stadium.

I actually look forward to season 4.5... though not sure where the story can go?

 

[crookeddy]

Well..that mass number....how would they have led them away? If that hoard still stayed, it would be impossible to leave. even with all of the supplies, and potential crops, they would run out long before the Walkers stumbled off.

And same with trying to escape... there's no way to leave...you'd die of starvaton eventually.

I still have a hard time buying Madison going from cutthroat opportunist last season to now being the good person at the stadium.

I actually look forward to season 4.5... though not sure where the story can go?

Season 4 wrapped up the original Fear The Walking dead. 4.5 begins whatever they want to do with the series now. Not much to do with the original show.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Fear the Walking Dead season 4A is officially my Rough Beasts of Empire for TWD universe. Characters return after a long ass time jump acting a fool (for no reason other than to satisfy changing things up), to be haphazardly crossed over with an old peaceful dude from another series in a back and forth mess of questionable character decisions, so that in the end my beloved leading character dies (figuratively in one, literally in the other). In the end, all I can feel is crappy and 'wth happened?'

 

[crookeddy]

I think that the incoming writers realized that FTWD was not fulfilling its original premise of showing us scenes from early on in the outbreak. So they came up with a whole new premise.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I suppose, but they kind of gave up that early outbreak stuff in season 1 when they burned down California. I was enjoying how the show evolved from trying to be like...but also not like TWD into what became of season 3.

I know I keep singing season 3's praises, but I really liked it. That was the structure I wanted to see with the type of character writing and situations. The Ranch and its super white premise, the addition of the First Nation and their peace/savagery, how it both subverted and doubled down on racial cliches, all in a realistic manner. I kept saying to myself, 'Oh god, this would totally happen this way..' between the factions. And that's not even mentioning the great stuff with Troy who I hated at first only to scream at the TV when he died. That was a season that was littered with random background characters who by the end of the season had been developed enough, snippet by snippet, into characters that I actually cared about. I flipped out when Coop died too. Plus, the episode filmed completely in Spanish with Daniel's side story and everything that happened in the pantry after the horde arrive was some of the best TV I have seen in a long time. And all of it was driven by character motivation rather than to move the plot along. The creative team found their storytelling niche and it was getting damn good! I don't see it as a new creative team trying to fix the show to make up for a premise that didn't work; I just see it as a new creative team that just wanted to do what they wanted to do... writing the story that they wanted to without being tied down to what came before. They went all out with that. They have a completely different style and motivation to their story telling. Whether or not it will be good, I can't even decide from 4A because it just felt like a means to an end.

But the sad part is, I don't think that 'realism' that I felt before is going to be a factor in the new FTWD. John Dorie's obvious charm aside, the new characters are more like caricatures of their traits rather than people with motivations or faults. Strand, for instance, keeps talking his smooth talk, but it sounds like he's written from an bot that took all of Strands season 1-3 dialogue and processed it into new lines without any of the emotional depth behind the words. Alicia and Luci are a bland sandwich (the latter of which was already thin on characterization) and Al is so wrapped up with her mission (a mission that I actually really, really like and respect as a character motivation in the zombie apocalypse) to such a ridiculous extent it hurts her character. These are problems that I have with TWD characters en masse. In the end I just hope that this new direction will be handled better than the last couple season of TWD.

But season 4B looked promising in the trailer. It's definitely not my FTWD, but it looks like it won't be straight up boring like TWD. Rest in peace, Fear the Walking Dead; Long live Fear the Walking Dead!

 

[crookeddy]

Troy was a racist murderer. If you felt anything bad at his death you are a horrible person and I shouldn't be talking to you.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Heh, okay that's fair I guess. But, it isn't as if I liked him as a person or want to be his friend, nor did I cheer and enjoy him for being a racist or a murderer... I enjoyed him as a complex, multi-layered character on the show. Yeah he was a racist murderer, but he was also a sociopath who had an abusive childhood. He was by no means a good person, but his terrible actions driven by his complex past made for a damn interesting story. His terrible actions then gave us that GREAT scene between him and Madison during his exile. I hated his introduction at the beginning, feeling like he was going to be a generic "I'M SO CREEPY EVIL" bad guy that I've been use to on TWD, but what he brought to the series was worth it by the end and I was sad to see him go. To me, that makes him a pretty damn strong character. Nick and Troy as bros brought something very fun and very weird, and it was an interesting journey from wanting to kill each other to hugging it out on the streets that made sense for both their characters' virtues and flaws. His death, then, signaled a potentially huge divergence in Nick and Madison's relationship that I wanted desperately to see evolve, but was instead written out in favor of a vanilla-version Clark family.

 

[crookeddy]

A zombie apocalypse really shouldn't be used as a backdrop for literal race relations, nor as a study of mental health. Nobody wants that. Season 3 was awful, so bad that the writers decided to basically kill the show and start a new one.

 

[Jayson1]

I think race issues and mental health stuff actually would very much impact a world like "Walking Dead" Old issues wouldn't just go away especially when you dealing with people who use to live in that world and the world isn't even that far back in the past. If people are still eating old processed food you just know the world ending was still a recent thing. It makes more sense than Janish and the garbage people or even a guy pretending to be a King.

Jason

 

[crookeddy]

I think race issues and mental health stuff actually would very much impact a world like "Walking Dead" Old issues wouldn't just go away especially when you dealing with people who use to live in that world and the world isn't even that far back in the past. If people are still eating old processed food you just know the world ending was still a recent thing. It makes more sense than Janish and the garbage people or even a guy pretending to be a King.

Jason

Yeah but this isn't real life, this is entertainment. I don't watch a zombie show to get an analysis of current race relations.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Season 4 wrapped up the original Fear The Walking dead. 4.5 begins whatever they want to do with the series now. Not much to do with the original show.

I think that the incoming writers realized that FTWD was not fulfilling its original premise of showing us scenes from early on in the outbreak. So they came up with a whole new premise.

That's largely due to Kirkman and his cronies not really being interested in showing the early outbreak, but jumping on subjects that would never fit on the parent series--better suited for any random drama that's overflowing with commentary.

I think race issues and mental health stuff actually would very much impact a world like "Walking Dead" Old issues wouldn't just go away especially when you dealing with people who use to live in that world and the world isn't even that far back in the past

Yeah, but we already experienced that with Merle being a racist, sexism and abuse from both the Governor and Negan and the nihilistic perversion of the Claimers, so its not like the WD franchise had not visited those subjects before. With FTWD, the series seemed to be all about that kind of subject matter--as if showrunners thought they were buying the kind of alleged "legitimacy" this kind of material affords straight, award-seeking dramas. As a result, the series was light on the survival horror plot--the reason the series exists at all (by way of the parent series, which has also suffered from a loss of direction over the past few seasons).

If people are still eating old processed food you just know the world ending was still a recent thing. It makes more sense than Janish and the garbage people or even a guy pretending to be a King.

Jason

Actually, Jadis in the junkyard makes sense in that it was a location that few outsiders would consider worth the effort (assumed disease risk), while they adopted that Yoda-speak as away of throwing off anyone who happened to show up. In FTWD, it was jumping from one social commentary to another (the Mexican drug gang, the white farmers, the Native Americans, etc.), and it did not feel like a Walking Dead show. It had more in common with The Road Warrior, Damnation Alley or other post-apocalyptic productions, and if that's the route the showrunners wanted to take, fine...but don't milk the brand by slapping "The Walking Dead" on it, just to bait and switch on viewers.

 

[crookeddy]

That's largely due to Kirkman and his cronies not really being interested in showing the early outbreak, but jumping on subjects that would never fit on the parent series--better suited for any random drama that's overflowing with commentary.



Yeah, but we already experienced that with Merle being a racist, sexism and abuse from both the Governor and Negan and the nihilistic perversion of the Claimers, so its not like the WD franchise had not visited those subjects before. With FTWD, the series seemed to be all about that kind of subject matter--as if showrunners thought they were buying the kind of alleged "legitimacy" this kind of material affords straight, award-seeking dramas. As a result, the series was light on the survival horror plot--the reason the series exists at all (by way of the parent series, which has also suffered from a loss of direction over the past few seasons).



Actually, Jadis in the junkyard makes sense in that it was a location that few outsiders would consider worth the effort (assumed disease risk), while they adopted that Yoda-speak as away of throwing off anyone who happened to show up. In FTWD, it was jumping from one social commentary to another (the Mexican drug gang, the white farmers, the Native Americans, etc.), and it did not feel like a Walking Dead show. It had more in common with The Road Warrior, Damnation Alley or other post-apocalyptic productions, and if that's the route the showrunners wanted to take, fine...but don't milk the brand by slapping "The Walking Dead" on it, just to bait and switch on viewers.

Yeah, this. You expressed what I was feeling to a tee. Social commentary is fine, but as something in the background to the survival horror. Ftwd is entirely social commentary. It doesn't even feel like an apocalyptic show.

 

[Jayson1]

Yeah, this. You expressed what I was feeling to a tee. Social commentary is fine, but as something in the background to the survival horror. Ftwd is entirely social commentary. It doesn't even feel like an apocalyptic show.

To me I guess it didn't like such a huge issue. I didn't see it at all in season 1 or 2 and when season 3 happens I still am not sure how much time has passed since the world started to end, especially since the show was a prequel and thus could buy into the idea that people might still be on some level expecting society to return. Their camps being a leading reason for this. Out in the open land vs people living in a old gas station. DIdn't feel like the kind of place where I would see as a long-term place of safety.

Jason

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I guess for me, I enjoyed the social commentary as the focus which made it altogether a different show from TWD. I personally like social commentary in any of my science fiction to be honest. I mean I wouldn't be opposed to more survivor horror stuff, but that wasn't what I was really looking for in hindsight.

 

[The Wormhole]

Troy was a racist murderer. If you felt anything bad at his death you are a horrible person and I shouldn't be talking to you.

Dude, what the fuck? I didn't particularly care for the character either, but there's nothing wrong with people who do like TV/movie characters who are reprehensible douchebags, and just because they do like such characters doesn't make them "horrible people." Or do you consider Star Trek fans who like Gul Dukat or Star Wars fans who like Vader or Palpatine horrible people unworthy of talking to?

 

[crookeddy]

Dude, what the fuck? I didn't particularly care for the character either, but there's nothing wrong with people who do like TV/movie characters who are reprehensible douchebags, and just because they do like such characters doesn't make them "horrible people." Or do you consider Star Trek fans who like Gul Dukat or Star Wars fans who like Vader or Palpatine horrible people unworthy of talking to?

FTWD is a show designed to be a mirror for the real world. On the nose social commentary. Liking Troy on the show is the same thing as liking a serial killer who murders brown people in the real world.