Fear the Walking Dead Season 1 discussion and spoilers.

[Trekker4747]

Also, I get it if you don't like a character, that seeing them get slapped can be refreshing, but I didn't really feel that way, despite not caring much for Nick. Maybe it's because the reason they're in that situation is because of her shitty parenting? Something about slapping around your kid, regardless of what he's done, just doesn't strike me as a positive thing. I get that resources are limited on detox therapy at that moment, but I dunno, that scene just made me dislike both characters even more. I'm not big on people abusing their children.

Nick definitely lost a few points by stealing the old man's morphine. His mother's reaction was interesting, though, as was her behavior afterward. Are we learning that the reason for his drug addiction was that he was abused?

I'm just going to come out and say it. We need to knock off the abuse talk.

There's a difference between abuse and discipline, and just because you may not believe in corporal punishment doesn't automatically make every instance of it abuse.

If Nick were simply walking around acting like a dumb teen - like his sister and his stepdad's son- then yes, Madison's treatment of him could be considered excessive.

He isn't just tattooing himself and mooning over a boyfriend. He siphoned the morphine away from a dying senior citizen just to get a fix. And he complained about his mother giving his drugs to a hurt old lady because it denied him his fix. He is a typical, unrepentant hype, concerned only with his next score, and in the developing situation that could get him and his family killed if he doesn't come to his senses, sooner rather than later. And if he needs to have that sense pounded into him, so much the better.

Discipline, not abuse.

Yeah, I wouldn't call it "abuse" either, though at his age he's beyond "discipline." It was venting frustration with her useless, asshole, druggie son who was stealing morphine from an elderly man who desperately, seriously, needed it. This was the same guy who a week earlier told his mother (a woman who has stood by him, it seems, through thick and thin and potentially risked her job and own freedom, by stealing medication from the school's holding locker. (Apparently they confiscate a LOT of opiates from students and it takes the police a while to pick them up.)

But the whole episode he was not only a douchebag towards his mother and family, and his "step-dad" a man who supported him through the events in the drug den; but he's lounging in the pool on raft like he's on fucking vacation and that there's not a major crisis going on around the city. But stealing morphine from the old man next door is new lows. And maybe it's just my utter disdain for the depths and lengths drug-attics go to but it'd be one thing if he took the meds from the old-man and replaced the IV bag with saline or something, but to lie under the bed getting high with the needle in between his toes is a whole other level of low.

He's worthless and it's understandable why his mother smacked the shit out of him when she found all of this out. It's not child abuse (not just because he's no longer a child) it's a case of assault, but it's a mother venting her frustrations on her piece-of-shit junkie son.

 

[Ryan8bit]

For starters, I didn't say child abuse, I said people abusing their children, which this clearly is. I don't care if the parent was 60 and their son was 40, I still wouldn't feel good about that.

And that brings up a good point, which is that when your child has become an adult, should you really still be "disciplining" them? This wasn't discipline, by the way, it was just Madison hurting him because she was angry. That is the key difference between discipline and abuse. Discipline is usually an effective means of training, and I doubt this had any effect on Nick.

So yeah, let's "knock off" the discipline talk.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Man, you bring some heavy baggage to your view of the show.

I'm far from the only one in this thread.

She only gets one credit: for slapping the shit out of the worthless addict. He steals scarce meds for a truly ill man to get his fix. Everyone in that neighborhood needs to sign up for that slapping duty.

Hahaha! That's what I was thinking of! Perfect outcome for the addict!

Yeah, for those cheering on him being taken away, he's probably going to be one that actually reunites with the group.

I said as much the other day; this series is determined to make the addict a hero, when his kind of behavior is not only deplorable in regular life, but in a survival situation.

Are we supposed to feel sorry for him for stealing meds from a sick, elderly man? Badmouthing all around him?

Maybe it's because the reason they're in that situation is because of her shitty parenting? Something about slapping around your kid, regardless of what he's done, just doesn't strike me as a positive thing. I get that resources are limited on detox therapy at that moment, but I dunno, that scene just made me dislike both characters even more. I'm not big on people abusing their children.

Well, you're right in not liking either character. You cannot set up a series with total asshole characters then try to transform them into heroes, which is in the process of happening with Meredith.

The parent series had to establish the truly good (season 1 Rick, Glenn) from those who were bad (Ed), of suffered from a loss of morality (Shane). FTWD does not even try, instead, creating several characters who are the trendy asshole = REAL DRAMA / WHERE'S MY EMMY?!?

There's no focal point for the audience, and established assholes just cannot "graduate" to likable heroes.

..and if Meredith was not bad enough, her bitching at her husband about his brining the house guests makes her the biggest hypocrite of all, since she--without ANY input from her family--was offering to take pimple-kid home with her. Is it any wonder she is not on any popularity list for one the allegedly top protagonists of the series?

 

[Scout101]

I'll definitely say that there was a hard cut between Episode 3 and 4. We went from mild unrest and couple homeless zombies to established, fenced off government safe zone in what appears to be overnight, or a day or two at most. And now it's full ZA, population of LA is dead and gone, what happened? Seems like the part they were supposed to mine as the reason to exist, show the fall, quietly just skipped to 'fallen already' between episode 3 and 4. From here, they just eventually get overrun, head out to the desert, and start their own WD brand.

Thought we'd be getting a lot more breakdown of civilization, government and military, science, that sort of stuff at the beginning. If not through other characters, at least increasingly bad tv or radio spots, rumors, etc. They've just avoided the issue, but bhy bother setting the show when they did if they aren't going to use it?

I'll keep watching, but hope they figure out why they exist at some point, otherwise I've got a better zombie show to watch already in the original flavor.

 

[theenglish]

For starters, I didn't say child abuse, I said people abusing their children, which this clearly is. I don't care if the parent was 60 and their son was 40, I still wouldn't feel good about that.

And that brings up a good point, which is that when your child has become an adult, should you really still be "disciplining" them? This wasn't discipline, by the way, it was just Madison hurting him because she was angry. That is the key difference between discipline and abuse. Discipline is usually an effective means of training, and I doubt this had any effect on Nick.

So yeah, let's "knock off" the discipline talk.

Regardless, once there are two adults involved, then there is no power difference to justify the term abuse (or at least not the same type of power difference).
In this case you could say Madison attacked him, but it can't be considered abuse--especially considering Nick clearly has the upper hand in the power dynamic between the two.

Now, always between adults when one person loves another, there is the possibility for abuse. In this case, Nick is clearly using his mother's love against her. She is going far above and beyond the call of duty to help him and keep him from hurting and he just spits on her attempts. He, as many drug addicts can be, is clearly the abuser in this relationship.

 

[Ryan8bit]

Thought we'd be getting a lot more breakdown of civilization, government and military, science, that sort of stuff at the beginning. If not through other characters, at least increasingly bad tv or radio spots, rumors, etc. They've just avoided the issue, but bhy bother setting the show when they did if they aren't going to use it?

This is exactly how I feel about the show at this point. I didn't think it would catch up to TWD when it began so soon, but we aren't really that far off in terms of the situation from where Rick and the gang were.

Regardless, once there are two adults involved, then there is no power difference to justify the term abuse.
In this case you could say Madison attacked him, but it can't be considered abuse--especially considering Nick clearly has the upper hand in the power dynamic between the two.

You have really bizarre definitions of the word. Power dynamics don't matter, unless you're one of those people who think men can't be abused by women at all.

 

[Admiral2]

For starters, I didn't say child abuse, I said people abusing their children, which this clearly is. I don't care if the parent was 60 and their son was 40, I still wouldn't feel good about that.

And that brings up a good point, which is that when your child has become an adult, should you really still be "disciplining" them? This wasn't discipline, by the way, it was just Madison hurting him because she was angry. That is the key difference between discipline and abuse. Discipline is usually an effective means of training, and I doubt this had any effect on Nick.

So yeah, let's "knock off" the discipline talk.

Fine let's use the other phrase I wrote: corporal punishment.

He's a selfish druggie asshole. He is hurting other innocent people being a selfish druggie asshole. He should suffer some discomfort for being a selfish druggie asshole. This episode, he did. I don't care what kind of a person Madison is, I don't care what her motivation was...as I said the first time, all I care is that she did it, and I'm satisfied.

 

[theenglish]

Thought we'd be getting a lot more breakdown of civilization, government and military, science, that sort of stuff at the beginning. If not through other characters, at least increasingly bad tv or radio spots, rumors, etc. They've just avoided the issue, but bhy bother setting the show when they did if they aren't going to use it?

This is exactly how I feel about the show at this point. I didn't think it would catch up to TWD when it began so soon, but we aren't really that far off in terms of the situation from where Rick and the gang were.

Regardless, once there are two adults involved, then there is no power difference to justify the term abuse.
In this case you could say Madison attacked him, but it can't be considered abuse--especially considering Nick clearly has the upper hand in the power dynamic between the two.

You have really bizarre definitions of the word. Power dynamics don't matter, unless you're one of those people who think men can't be abused by women at all.

I made a parenthetical addition to clarify that comment--but in this is in no way a case of Madison abusing her son. If anything, Nick is the abusive force in their relationship.

 

[sojourner]

Man, you bring some heavy baggage to your view of the show.

I'm far from the only one in this thread.

You're the only one assigning ulterior motives to "hollywood" in this thread regarding the direction the show has taken.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Seems like the part they were supposed to mine as the reason to exist, show the fall, quietly just skipped to 'fallen already' between episode 3 and 4. From here, they just eventually get overrun, head out to the desert, and start their own WD brand.

Thought we'd be getting a lot more breakdown of civilization, government and military, science, that sort of stuff at the beginning. If not through other characters, at least increasingly bad tv or radio spots, rumors, etc. They've just avoided the issue, but bhy bother setting the show when they did if they aren't going to use it?

Great points. It seems the FTWD producers are continuing with the cowardly avoidance of how this all happened--which is more than dead people running around, and people scavenging for bottled water. That's why TWD's "TS-19" was one of the most effective episodes of the franchise ever aired, as it addressed what was not in the comics: rational survivor questions about the ZA's origins, and not just jumping to carrying clubs the second a catastrophe occurs.

One might argue that TWD was not about the origins, but FTWD is all about that, and again, its just about all of this scavenging and soap opera retreads we've witnessed so far.

I'll keep watching, but hope they figure out why they exist at some point, otherwise I've got a better zombie show to watch already in the original flavor.

Indeed.

He's a selfish druggie asshole. He is hurting other innocent people being a selfish druggie asshole. He should suffer some discomfort for being a selfish druggie asshole. This episode, he did. I don't care what kind of a person Madison is, I don't care what her motivation was...as I said the first time, all I care is that she did it, and I'm satisfied.

The addict deserved it--he also does not care that his selfish behavior threatened a life beyond his own, or that his secretive behavior can lead to disaster if his door-opening habits were ever spotted by a stray zombie.

I'm guessing the series will turn the addict into the hero, and as a result, give new meaning to the word "impossible"....on a series about cannibalistic corpses.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Man, you bring some heavy baggage to your view of the show.

I'm far from the only one in this thread.

You're the only one assigning ulterior motives to "hollywood" in this thread regarding the direction the show has taken.

That was not part of your original post at all, as seen above.

Further, we see a debate on corporal punishment vs. abuse which leads to comments on members as much as the show. Bottom line, if the series was doing everything (at least) near-right, there would not be much to discuss, but....

 

[sojourner]

I'm far from the only one in this thread.

You're the only one assigning ulterior motives to "hollywood" in this thread regarding the direction the show has taken.

That was not part of your original post at all, as seen above.

And?

That's still some strange baggage dude.

Further, we see a debate on corporal punishment vs. abuse which leads to comments on members as much as the show. Bottom line, if the series was doing everything (at least) near-right, there would not be much to discuss, but....

So? I wasn't commenting on that at all.

 

[Morpheus 02]

There's a difference between abuse and discipline, and just because you may not believe in corporal punishment doesn't automatically make every instance of it abuse.
<clip>

Discipline, not abuse.

Discipline needs to come from someone who is disciplined, at least in the moment.

Madison may (or may not) be doing systematic abuse, but what she did by hitting her son was NOT discipline.

It was done out of anger & frustration, and i highly doubt she made a strategic decision to do that to change her son's behavior.

Now, Madison probably is not a systematic abuser, and this was a one-time thing....but definitely not intentional discipline!

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I'll definitely say that there was a hard cut between Episode 3 and 4. We went from mild unrest and couple homeless zombies to established, fenced off government safe zone in what appears to be overnight, or a day or two at most. And now it's full ZA, population of LA is dead and gone, what happened? Seems like the part they were supposed to mine as the reason to exist, show the fall, quietly just skipped to 'fallen already' between episode 3 and 4. From here, they just eventually get overrun, head out to the desert, and start their own WD brand.

Thought we'd be getting a lot more breakdown of civilization, government and military, science, that sort of stuff at the beginning. If not through other characters, at least increasingly bad tv or radio spots, rumors, etc. They've just avoided the issue, but bhy bother setting the show when they did if they aren't going to use it?

I'll keep watching, but hope they figure out why they exist at some point, otherwise I've got a better zombie show to watch already in the original flavor.

The son videotaping said it had been nine days since they lost power, so yeah I'd consider that a hard cut It's disappointing because I really wanted to see the downfall of LA too

My question is, what the hell happened to Atlanta? The military seems to have had no problem splitting Los Angeles up into safe zones (although we haven't seen the downtown area) and things seem relatively quiet outside of said safe zones (with the exception of the military shooting people who like reflecting the sun off of glass or mirrors). Los Angeles is a huge city with millions of people and a few soldiers can lock it down, so why did the military have to napalm Atlanta?

 

[Tom]

Different decisions for different areas I would say. We already have a Safe Zone story happening on TWD, why do we need one on FTWD?

 

[Ryan8bit]

He's a selfish druggie asshole. He is hurting other innocent people being a selfish druggie asshole. He should suffer some discomfort for being a selfish druggie asshole. This episode, he did. I don't care what kind of a person Madison is, I don't care what her motivation was...as I said the first time, all I care is that she did it, and I'm satisfied.

I feel like he got what he deserved by being taken away to the other facility. That feels a bit more satisfying to me.

I made a parenthetical addition to clarify that comment--but in this is in no way a case of Madison abusing her son. If anything, Nick is the abusive force in their relationship.

Yes, Nick is abusive of her trust and probably a slew of other things, and is definitely the worst of the two in many ways. But abuse isn't a zero sum game or one way street. She still abused him there, there's no way around that until you start adding silly exceptions to how the word is defined. And at that point, it really goes far beyond what my original intent was, which should have been clear: Someone being violent to their son out of frustration doesn't make me feel good about that character. People just latched onto these words trying to make it into something that it's not.

But I understand the feeling of wanting to slap him, and I understand Madison doing it. It just doesn't make me feel good, and I thought I'd share that since there seemed to be more of a consensus on that. I don't mind if other people feel differently.

I'm guessing the series will turn the addict into the hero, and as a result, give new meaning to the word "impossible"....on a series about cannibalistic corpses.

They couldn't have foreshadowed it too much more than when Madison said, "Don't be a hero," and he said there wasn't much chance of that.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

That's still some strange baggage dude.

"Baggage" implies the personal. Observing the series, and motives behind decisions, character development is not personal at all.

The son videotaping said it had been nine days since they lost power, so yeah I'd consider that a hard cut It's disappointing because I really wanted to see the downfall of LA too

My question is, what the hell happened to Atlanta? The military seems to have had no problem splitting Los Angeles up into safe zones (although we haven't seen the downtown area) and things seem relatively quiet outside of said safe zones (with the exception of the military shooting people who like reflecting the sun off of glass or mirrors). Los Angeles is a huge city with millions of people and a few soldiers can lock it down, so why did the military have to napalm Atlanta?

If we consider that a proven, or even suspected national zombie outbreak would instantly trigger a federal response (CDC, NSA, FBI, etc.), why wouldn't Atlanta use the same tactics as a locations with a significantly greater population?

We do know one military tank was in downtown Atlanta, but from every episode giving us any glimpse of the area (season 1, and the Beth / Grady memorial arc in season 5), but no signs of a barricade. In fact, the only barricades (or security presence) we ever see is in the property surrounding the CDC. Perhaps a unit received orders that Atlanta and surrounding areas were overrun at a pace faster than Los Angeles, thus the drastic military response?

Or maybe TWD just wanted to show the world being so devastated, that the flashback would justify the "present" day streets being so empty.

But FTWD--being the beginning of it all--is skipping over that for what reason? Are they trying to avoid costly location shooting and mass make-up jobs (or CG zombie armies)?

 

[Turd Ferguson]

But FTWD--being the beginning of it all--is skipping over that for what reason? Are they trying to avoid costly location shooting and mass make-up jobs (or CG zombie armies)?

That's another thing I've been wondering. It makes sense that huge population centers like LA, New York, Atlanta, etc. would fall pretty fast considering the sheer number of zombies/potential zombies.

Maybe season two will see Travis and Madison reaching the desert, or perhaps a small town where most of its denizens are card-carrying concealed weapons enthusiasts with itchy trigger fingers that would keep the zombie apocalypse at bay for a while longer.

 

[sojourner]

That's still some strange baggage dude.

"Baggage" implies the personal. Observing the series, and motives behind decisions, character development is not personal at all.

And yet, you're the only one in the thread that has thought in that direction. Why do you think there's some kind of agenda in how the characters are portrayed?


See, that's the "personal baggage" part, since you're the only one that went down that road.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

That's still some strange baggage dude.

"Baggage" implies the personal. Observing the series, and motives behind decisions, character development is not personal at all.

And yet, you're the only one in the thread that has thought in that direction. Why do you think there's some kind of agenda in how the characters are portrayed?

Now, you're obsessively trolling--and playing backyard Dr. Phil. By your criteria, the sub-discussion by only a couple of members on what is / is not physical abuse must be evidence of "baggage." Hardly. It is called observation.

Meanwhile, you have little to say about the series at all, but spend much attacking board members.