BTW, aren't you supposed to be a TNG moderator? Last time I checked this was the DS9 forum! Isn't it enough that you've turned your assigned subforum into a tomb of thought? Are you planning on ruining this one too?
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Far Beyond the Stars
- Thread starter Dobian
- Start date
Because they didn't want to. They wanted to do a story which featured actual 1950s racism.
The illustration of such racism remains important. I was a kid when this episode aired. I have no problem admitting that I didn't know how bad things were back in the 50's. This episode made me ask questions.
Besides, almost any series can examine a subject like racism in the time the series is set. Star Trek has the luxury of being able to examine such things over time in different ways.
That's what's called a non-answer. Thanks for the non-effort you put into it.
Anything else you want to tell us that we already know?
This is a series supposedly about the future, isn't it ironic that they can't even bring themselves to talk about the problems of the present? It would be like a purported weatherman constantly talking about the weather of Yesterday. How long before people finally realize that his intervention was useless?
How is it a non-answer when it is the actual answer? Trek doesn't tend to do "now" when it comes to social issues. Trek does analogy. If the obvious message of this episode is lost on certain viewers just because it is set in the '50s, then I doubt they are the kind of person to be touched by the story in any way, so it barely matters.
Why would a story about '90s racism have been more dramatic, more important than the one that they made? What would it bring to the table that FBTS didn't?
Would it be that "old racism" had gone away? It hadn't, and still hasn't.
Would it be that "modern" racism can be insidious? They showed that in the episode just fine.
Yep, and it's why I lost interest in Trek during this time. It had it's head up it's ass in the being a "message show" department, but didn't have a relevant message. Watching them bleat on about how racist the 50's was just looked ridiculous when there were shows out there talking about the race issues affecting us NOW.The problem was that t.v. didn't have to dress up social issues with boingy antennas and silver body paint to get past censors. Television was now addressing pressing and current issues like racism, drug abuse, mental issues, gay issues, etc, etc head on.
Trek in the 90's was anything but bold. It was a product that went out of it's way to play it safe.
FBTS is certainly one of my favorite episodes of DS9, and indeed all of Star Trek. 
FBTS is among Trek's most self-congratulatory episodes. It is not an expose about racism, so the critique that it was irrelevant to the world of the 1990s is off. Instead, the episode focused on historical memory—how the main character could relate his trials to those of people in the past—and in that sense, it was very timely to the 90s. Historical memory was a hot topic in the 1990s. Schindler's List and the lawsuits against Swiss and German banks revived discussion about the complexity of these attrocities and suggested that Jews never really received justice for the suffering caused by the Third Reich and other governments at the time. Subsequently, other areas of discrimination from the past were also open to discussion. And as much as people protested that such things were “in the past,” there never had been justice for discrimination in the United States (and other countries), only amelioration through the guarantees of civil rights.
What makes the time period particularly necessary for the episode is that FBTS proposes an alternative history for Star Trek. Could the series have been made if the creator had been working in another era and if he were of another race? ST generally basks in the glow of the Civil Rights movement and the idealism of the 1960s, but it might have been impossible to produce if certain specifics were changed.
And who made me king of the internet? The one trying to depose me, of course.
What makes the time period particularly necessary for the episode is that FBTS proposes an alternative history for Star Trek. Could the series have been made if the creator had been working in another era and if he were of another race? ST generally basks in the glow of the Civil Rights movement and the idealism of the 1960s, but it might have been impossible to produce if certain specifics were changed.
And who made me king of the internet? The one trying to depose me, of course.
You know what's really sad? It's that Trek used to be really bold in the area of progressive thinking. I mean, it was the 60s and they had a black woman as a recurring character on the bridge, not to mention an Asian and a Russian in the middle of the cold war. Of course he was a bit Caricatural with the impossible accent and his Russia has invented everything shtick but still it was a bold move to have him on board...
Plus a few things like the first interracial kiss on tv (well, maybe not but I'll say close enough)
All things that were commendable and then... We had TNG:
It started really bad with its first season all black planet with its ruler being a caricature comic book black villain and every one on the planet behaving like members of a tribe in an old Great white hunter movie, I mean all that was missing is Picard and his senior staff, all wearing pith helmets! and then the all white planet (Hitler's vision of a perfect world).
After crap like that there was nowhere to go but up!
And of course then went up, a little, and ever since remained the chicken little of TV entertainment in everything of social interest, with some glaring examples like never even acknowledge that there is such a thing as gay regular people, not that they spent much time talking about the gay irregular people mind you. Just a couple of times and it was in the "EVIL" universe.
And it stayed that way till the last episode of Enterprise!
Talk about missed opportunities!
Plus a few things like the first interracial kiss on tv (well, maybe not but I'll say close enough)
All things that were commendable and then... We had TNG:
It started really bad with its first season all black planet with its ruler being a caricature comic book black villain and every one on the planet behaving like members of a tribe in an old Great white hunter movie, I mean all that was missing is Picard and his senior staff, all wearing pith helmets! and then the all white planet (Hitler's vision of a perfect world).
After crap like that there was nowhere to go but up!
And of course then went up, a little, and ever since remained the chicken little of TV entertainment in everything of social interest, with some glaring examples like never even acknowledge that there is such a thing as gay regular people, not that they spent much time talking about the gay irregular people mind you. Just a couple of times and it was in the "EVIL" universe.
And it stayed that way till the last episode of Enterprise!
Talk about missed opportunities!
Far Beyond the Stars is probably one of my least favorite episodes of DS9, for a number of reasons.
-We're in the heart of the dominion war at this point in the series, something that had been building up for years prior. It was a huge letdown at this point to have an episode that had almost nothing to do with the Dominion War or even DS9 in general. Everyone already knew that Trek shows don't go past 7 seasons, and that there was only about a season and a half left at this point to wrap everything up. To have an episode that doesn't actually further the story in anyway, and is just completely out in left field is just... wow. Seems more like something they should have done during Season 2 or 3.
-I respect the importance of how racism was dealt with in the 1950s, but honestly, there are lots of random important subjects out there, and dwelling on 1950's racism isn't why I watch a sci-fi show about a 24th century space station.
-We're in the heart of the dominion war at this point in the series, something that had been building up for years prior. It was a huge letdown at this point to have an episode that had almost nothing to do with the Dominion War or even DS9 in general. Everyone already knew that Trek shows don't go past 7 seasons, and that there was only about a season and a half left at this point to wrap everything up. To have an episode that doesn't actually further the story in anyway, and is just completely out in left field is just... wow. Seems more like something they should have done during Season 2 or 3.
-I respect the importance of how racism was dealt with in the 1950s, but honestly, there are lots of random important subjects out there, and dwelling on 1950's racism isn't why I watch a sci-fi show about a 24th century space station.
I have to admit I hate this episode. It's merits aside, a show about a minority writer facing prejudice in the 1950s is NOT what I want to see if I turn on a Science Fiction show set in outer space. When I want a story like that I have enough (excellent) media that deals with that subject I can read or watch.
I don't get why Star Trek seems to have this urge to break its genre so often, aside from this we have those abysmal Dixon Hill episodes in TNG (along with Fistfull of Datas) Janeway's Victorian holo-fantasy, the Bride of Chaotica and probably more examples that I can't think of right now.
What's so wrong with simply making a science fiction show, without any homages/parodies/love letters/or explorations to/of/into other genres? As far as I know the average crime investigation show doesn't decide out of the blue to set an episode on board a space ship either.
I don't get why Star Trek seems to have this urge to break its genre so often, aside from this we have those abysmal Dixon Hill episodes in TNG (along with Fistfull of Datas) Janeway's Victorian holo-fantasy, the Bride of Chaotica and probably more examples that I can't think of right now.
What's so wrong with simply making a science fiction show, without any homages/parodies/love letters/or explorations to/of/into other genres? As far as I know the average crime investigation show doesn't decide out of the blue to set an episode on board a space ship either.
stargate atlantis did a CSI episode in its last season. It was of course in a parallel universe where the hero (or rather his doppelganger) instead of piloting a starship was an investigator . Anyway, it seems many do it.
This forum is MY particular tomb of thought. Today's thought: chill out and stay on topic. Civilly.
- Shatna, king regent of the internet
There's also (I think) a few episodes of that old Hercules and Xenia shows that do something similar (but the less said about those the better if you ask me)
But it seems mostly scifi and fantasy shows that indulge in this ridiculous "genre breaking" as if they couldn't be happy with having a decent, imaginative universe. No, they have to set an episode in the 50s/modern times/WWII/western whatever. I don't get it... If I want a crime investigation show I'll watch that (there are enough good crime shows about) if I want a historical drama, I'll watch that (also enough of them available)
I however do not sit down to watch an episode of Game of Thrones and think "Oh boy I hope this week they'll forget about all that fantasy, medieval warfare and political intrigue stuff and dress the characters in fugly 50s fashion and set the episode in a small town in New England!"
I feel that you are overstating the problem. Science Fiction, in general, is very referential, particularly when it is on TV. If it is not fantasy play, it's time travel, or alternative timelines, etc. Even Star Wars, purportedly not in our galaxy or era, is filled with references to human history and (pop) culture.
The 1950s setting in this episode is more relevant because it delves into more than just the era: it explores the processes that led tothe creation of Science Fiction, even suggesting a relationship between pulp fiction and Star Trek. That makes it one of the better uses of human history by a science fiction show: how ideas were fostered by the events and expereinces of the writers, their struggles, etc.
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No worries. It's just a pet peeve of mine when it comes to Sci Fi and fantasy because it always seems to me like the show runners are saying "We need a break of all this childish space alien nonsense and do something classy/serious for once."
It was, after all still the time when fantasy/sci fi was much more perceived as only for "nerds" and children.
Luckily today fantasy/scifi shows have a higher chance of being taken seriously and I can't really think of a contemporary SciFi show that "broke" it's genre. However "Caprica" was very close to that (from what I have seen)
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