Fandom is so toxic right now

[Gaith]

What do you mean: "Right now..." ? Star Trek, Star Wars and often Sci-Fi Fantasy fandom has always been somewhat toxic. It's just with the explosion of social media, said toxicity gains a wider audience.

What's more, as advertising revenue for media reporting sites shrinks, there's an obvious incentive on those writers' part to whip up passions by repeatedly dunking on that minority of toxic fans. Obviously, those toxic fans fully deserve said criticism, but if the geek media were to largely decline to feed the trolls, and ignore them (thus depriving major, traditional news outlets of relatively respectable sources to pull from for articles of their own), I think we'd have a significantly brighter, and probably more representative, picture of fandom as a whole...

 

[Steve Roby]

I think she has several problems. One she wasn't Rosario Dawson or even a big name.

That's hardly her problem. That's the problem of, oh, anyone who forgets that Patrick Stewart was virtually unknown in 1987. The first really well known lead actor on a Star Trek TV series was Scott Bakula.

I don't think anyone who watched her on "Walking Dead" ever felt like she was so great that it was just a matter of time before she gets a bigger role.

So what? I saw Patrick Stewart in Excalibur and Lifeforce before TNG. He was just one of many supporting cast members. I didn't watch him and think, damn, this guy's really got something.

The writing for her was uneven. The speeches never feel as deep as they think they are. She has no sense of humor. I mean in the end she is just kind of bland. A cookie cutter action lead that it feels like we have seen a million times without that one twist or quirk that makes her standout from that cliche.

Oh, come on. She's got a lot of backstory that explains who she is and how she behaves through the series. She's a human whose parents were killed by Klingons and was then raised by Vulcans. She tries to stay logical and suppressed, she's still strongly influenced by Sarek. That background convinced her to take the actions she did that led to the Battle at the Binary Stars. Her unavoidably emotional reaction to the death of the woman who influenced her as much as Sarek and Amanda, Philippa Georgiou, led her to lock herself down more when she was court-martialled. Being on a weird ship like Discovery, with its odd crew and mission, doesn't help her come back to normal -- but gradually she does. She has character development. I look forward to seeing how she develops in a more normal and stable environment this season, and also how the Spock storyline will affect her. It'll be a lot more interesting than waiting to see how Chekov or Dr. Crusher or Harry Kim or Travis Mayweather might possibly develop and grow.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Having labels hanged around your neck anytime you don't like something is in itself toxic. People just try to politicize/personalize everything.

All too true. Its politicized cudgel used by some who claim not to use the tactics of the "others".

Or Peter "He's too young!" Davison replaced Tom "irreplaceable" Baker. Or Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy in general. Nothing new.

Ah, I remember the fan-screaming when Davison was announced as Baker's successor; yes, some thought he was "too young" (nevermind that fact the series never set any age range for the Doctor, it was just coincidence and good casting up to that point) and never warmed up to him...but that all changed when the hate-meter exploded as Colin Baker followed Davison.

There was no existing Rey/Finn dynamic in the sense that people are claiming. Rey are Finn are friends who helped each other survive a bad situation.

Rey and Finn were moving toward the "more than friends" level in TFA until the SW PTB dropped that in favor of the forced Rose business in TLJ. It strongly suggested the PTB responded to the negative reaction to black Finn having any sort of romantic potential with white Rey, so it was dropped with no explanation, other than Rey observing Finn being attentive to Rose, but of all of the new characters, Finn and Rey were the only thing close to potential romance in this sequel series.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Speechifying is what Starfleet does best.

If you're on the Command Track you need four years of Speechifying to graduate the Academy.

 

[fireproof78]

Rey and Finn were moving toward the "more than friends" level in TFA until the SW PTB dropped that in favor of the forced Rose business in TLJ. It strongly suggested the PTB responded to the negative reaction to black Finn having any sort of romantic potential with white Rey, so it was dropped with no explanation, other than Rey observing Finn being attentive to Rose, but of all of the new characters, Finn and Rey were the only thing close to potential romance in this sequel series.

I'm glad they didn't. Also, moving towards and actually becoming are two different things.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Remember when Luke and Leia were moving towards "more that friends".

 

[Jayson1]

Speechifying is what Starfleet does best.

Actually it only works with Picard. The speeches have to be really, really good for anyone else or lets face it anyone who doesn't have a British accent.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

I actually really liked the Sasha character on Walking Dead. They continually loose characters but I was about done with the show when the wroute out her brother, and then later her.

I agree that more humor would help the series out, but I have a feeling we're about to get that.

I felt the character was fine which is kind of how I feel about Burnham. I just would think you would want someone more compelling. Also they might have picked the wrong "Walking Dead" actress. Danai Gurira might end up having the best post "Walking Dead" career out of all the actors and that show should be worried after "Black Panther" as to how long they can keep on the show.

Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

Actually it only works with Picard. The speeches have to be really, really good for anyone else or lets face it anyone who doesn't have a British accent.

Jason

Kirk is a master of Speechifying. One could say he wrote the book.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Kirk is a master of Speechifying. One could say he wrote the book.

Of course, not all captains were as good at it as Kirk and Picard. There was a speech about gazelles that comes to mind that I would like to forget...

 

[Jayson1]

That's hardly her problem. That's the problem of, oh, anyone who forgets that Patrick Stewart was virtually unknown in 1987. The first really well known lead actor on a Star Trek TV series was Scott Bakula.



So what? I saw Patrick Stewart in Excalibur and Lifeforce before TNG. He was just one of many supporting cast members. I didn't watch him and think, damn, this guy's really got something.



Oh, come on. She's got a lot of backstory that explains who she is and how she behaves through the series. She's a human whose parents were killed by Klingons and was then raised by Vulcans. She tries to stay logical and suppressed, she's still strongly influenced by Sarek. That background convinced her to take the actions she did that led to the Battle at the Binary Stars. Her unavoidably emotional reaction to the death of the woman who influenced her as much as Sarek and Amanda, Philippa Georgiou, led her to lock herself down more when she was court-martialled. Being on a weird ship like Discovery, with its odd crew and mission, doesn't help her come back to normal -- but gradually she does. She has character development. I look forward to seeing how she develops in a more normal and stable environment this season, and also how the Spock storyline will affect her. It'll be a lot more interesting than waiting to see how Chekov or Dr. Crusher or Harry Kim or Travis Mayweather might possibly develop and grow.

I'm not talking about backstory. Her backstory is fine even if strains abit with what we have seen of Spock's family. In fact it's actually a pretty interesting backstory. I'm talking about something intangible where you can tell that actor is not just a good actor but a star as well. Kind of like how you could tell the EMH was going to be special on "Voyager" in the pilot and first few episodes despite even the show creators not expecting him to become as popular as he did. SMG is a okay actress and if she was playing a secondary character it would seem to fit. I'm just not seeing something special that makes her feel like she will ever be a great character. Not that better writing can't elevate the character but she isn't someone I think you would say you enjoy watching even if the episode is bad just because you really enjoy the character.

Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

Of course, not all captains were as good at it as Kirk and Picard. There was a speech about gazelles that comes to mind that I would like to forget...

Kirk would have made it work.

 

[Jayson1]

Kirk is a master of Speechifying. One could say he wrote the book.

Was he good or was it that Gene Coon was just that good? I will say Shatner as a actor does make speeches good so I guess I would count him as well but then Shatner is a one of a kind as a actor. Such a unique person that everyone knows him even if they have never seen a ep of Trek.

Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

Was he good or was it that Gene Coon was just that good? I will say Shatner as a actor does make speeches good so I guess I would count him as well but then Shatner is a one of a kind as a actor. Such a unique person that everyone knows him even if they have never seen a ep of Trek.

Jason

Did Coon write all of Kirk's speeches?

He's not all that different than Stewart really. Both are stage trained and can veer into hammy at times. (Yeah, I said it)

 

[Jayson1]

Did Coon write all of Kirk's speeches?

He's not all that different than Stewart really. Both are stage trained and can veer into hammy at times. (Yeah, I said it)

The stage thing could be a thing but Stewart was never hammy. He was perfection and the finest actor to ever work on Star Trek except for Padma Lakshmi and Jake Dengel.

Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

The stage thing could be a thing but Stewart was never hammy. He was perfection and the finest actor to ever work on Star Trek except for Padma Lakshmi and Jake Dengel.

Jason

Stewart was so hammy at times, his performance could be mistaken for Easter dinner.

 

[Jayson1]

Stewart was so hammy at times, his performance could be mistaken for Easter dinner.

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Jason

 

[Nerys Myk]

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Jason

Nope.

 

[gblews]

True. I remember the months right after Star Wars premiered in 1977, and how much hate was fired between Star Trek and Star Wars fans, with some Trekkers arguing that only the simple-minded or childish found SW entertaining, an'sd after the '79 release of Star Trek - The Motion Picture, some SW fans mocked ST fans for their movie with the "all the old people in it". It was nasty.

Just curious, how did you become aware of the relationships between SW and ST fans in 1977?

andoms have always had toxic elements going back decades now. Every one of them has unsavoury groups, individuals, etc

The internet didn't come into popular use until around the early 90's, and back then there weren't that many Trek forums online. not like today. AOL had their Trek section, as did Prodigy and Compuserve. I frequented the AOL and Prodigy forums and I don't recall anything like the vitriol and animosity aimed at shows, actors, writers, producers, franchises, etc, like there is today.

I eventually moved over to Usenet newsgropus which, unlike the AOL and Prodigy forums, were totally unmoderated. You could say anything you wanted any way you wanted, to whom you wanted, as often as you wanted. There were newsgroups for any subject you wanted, from the most outlandish sexual practices, to racial hate, to whatever.

Each Trek show had it's own newsgroup. I don't recall posters going off on Janeway because she was a woman or Sisko because he was black. No one brought up either show having a "political agenda". I do recall a guy trying to explain why a Vulcan could not have dark skin (Tuvok), but he was treated in a very civil manner even though his position was based solely on traditional casting practices with regard to race.

In a nutshell, I think what is going on today is very different than 20 to 30 years ago. These days there is a fair amount of outright animosity directed at productions and actors based on gender, race, sexual orientation. There are people who are apparently threatened in some way by changing sensibilities in these areas, ESPECIALLY when the production makes clear that their intent is to be more inclusive or (gulp), "diverse".

No, fandoms have always been opinionated but not "toxic". Not like it is today. .

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Just curious, how did you become aware of the relationships between SW and ST fans in 1977?

I was around and an active part of sci-fi fandom at the time. That meant your friends, conventions big and small, comic shops--anywhere. SW had an immediate effect on sci-fi fandom with many ST long-timers, and fans of so-called "hard sci-fi" novels already taking a negative position against it (calling it "stupid", "childish"--which was also aimed at the film's fans), while SW fans thought that first film was a revelation, and everything else was "nothing" compared to it--mild compared to what they said of TOs fan, the actors, etc.. There was a time DC vs. Marvel fandom was a terrible thing to be around, but the vitriol swirling around SW and ST fans left the comic book wars in the dust.

Each Trek show had it's own newsgroup. I don't recall posters going off on Janeway because she was a woman or Sisko because he was black.

I do recall some fans who frowned at the idea of Russ as Tuvok, all because "there are no black Vulcans". It may not have been widespread, but the resistance was there. ..and this from the (allegedly) most open-minded sci-fi fanbase of all.