Ezri or Sarina?

[Rush Limborg]

I thought I'd bring this up.

See, the cover blurb for the Trek novel Zero Sum Game has been revealed. It's to be a tale involving Captian Ezri Dax of the Aventine, and a duo of Starfleet Intelligence officers named Sarina Douglass...and Julian Bashir.

In the blurb, it's stated that Julian has begun to think that Sarina is his true love.

Now...I have no clue how this tale will end up--nor will I until it comes out in the fall.

But somehow, his TrekLit break-up with Ezri notwithstanding, I was always under the impression that it was Ezri that was his love.

Now...a case can be made either way. For Sarina, it's the moment at the end of "Chrysalis". For Ezri, its the wonderful cameraderie we saw between the couple--and the many times we see them care for each other.

But at any rate, let's talk about this, through vote and debate:

Which one do you think is the one true love of Doctor Julian Bashir?

I'll post a poll momentarily.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Ugh...that whole thing with Sarina reeked of sexual harassment, and I just can't get over that.

I definitely have to go with Ezri.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Garak was his true love.

Or O'Brien.

 

[happydave]

I always got this kind of weird vibe from Ezri in the relaunch. Bashir was fighting an uphill battle there as Ezri couldn't exactly figure out who she was, yet who she wanted.

Sarina on the other hand, we still basically know little about (being someone who was catatonic in one episode and still not quite being adjusted properly in the second).

So I'll have to reserve judgement until I read just who Sarina is.

Though it does appear Bashir does throw himself upon women who have major issues to deal with. Being genetically enhanced and having a huge ego, is this his way of making sure when the relationship blows up in his face he has an excuse as to why and can absolve himself of any blame?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

MJP--My comments in other threads about the interpretation of Garak and who he was interested in aside, I don't think we had onscreen evidence of Bashir being gay or bi. The writers would've had to make that much clearer if they ever wanted to imply that. I think that had the writers decided to, they could have written it that way, but as it actually went down they never gave Bashir any sign of returning the possible feelings Garak had.

Plus, your suggestion of O'Brien would make Julian a homewrecker, and even with his many partners I don't think we ever heard of Julian interfering in a married relationship.

 

[StarryEyed]

I don't believe in TRUE love - this fiction that there is a single person out there who is the One and Only.

In this particular case, I think there were ethical issues with both Serena and Ezri.

Serena was Julian's patient - end of discussion. Plus, she was emotionally a child. She knew it. Julian was blind to it. I really liked the episode but it would have been better if Miles had been much more forceful in waking Julian up to the fact that Serena wasn't ready for an intimate relationship and that Julian was essentially acting as a predator.

Ezri wasn't as emotionally compromised as Serena but she wasn't exactly fully-functional either. While not directly involved in her adaption as a joined Trill, I think Julian (in his role as a care-giver) should have been a bit more empathic of her situation and not pushed so hard.

 

[Jono]

I don't believe in TRUE love - this fiction that there is a single person out there who is the One and Only.

Completely agree. It's a nice romantic notion that can make for entertaining viewing but in reality I do thing it is a bunch of rubbish.

Voted for Sarina only because I never really bought into Julian and Erzi's relationship. If there had been a both option I would probably have gone with both...or maybe neither.

 

[Thestral]

I guess I also don't really believe that either are his "true love" because I don't think love and relationships really work that way.

That said, I quite liked the Ezri/Julian relationship that WYLB left us and the Relaunch started off with. I also approved of the dissolving of the relationship for the reasons given, and don't think returning to it would be the best approach for either character. Though it could be written to work of course.

So, I think going forward a Julian/Serena relationship is definitely worth exploring (especially as it's been, what, seven years or so since Chrysalis by this point in the Relaunch?), and I hope Dax and Julian can have a good professional relationship.

Ezri wasn't as emotionally compromised as Serena but she wasn't exactly fully-functional either. While not directly involved in her adaption as a joined Trill, I think Julian (in his role as a care-giver) should have been a bit more empathic of her situation and not pushed so hard.

Wellll.... I don't know that I'd say he pushed all that hard TBH. I mean, their relationship-beginning in The Final Chapter was almost endearingly clumsy, and first introduced by way of Ezri; and besides, by that point, she'd been Joined for about a year, yeah?

 

[RyuRoots]

Not Ezri, in any case. I'm glad for the breakup. The relationship always seemed forced to me, like I expected Julian to slip up and call her "Jadzia No. 2" at some point.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Now, see. I never got that argument. I'd always thought that, as Ezri's interaction with Julian was so very different from Jadzia's, that he'd have no trouble at all reminding himself of it!

(BTW...it was Ezri who actually did slip and refer to her "series" self as "the Jadzia you knew", in Mission Gamma: This Grey Spirit.)

 

[Rush Limborg]

I always got this kind of weird vibe from Ezri in the relaunch. Bashir was fighting an uphill battle there as Ezri couldn't exactly figure out who she was, yet who she wanted.

Exactly. And the irony is...I think Ezri was accepting who she was in The Final Chapter--but the authors through it all out the window bu having her change direction in the relaunch. *sigh*

Though it does appear Bashir does throw himself upon women who have major issues to deal with. Being genetically enhanced and having a huge ego, is this his way of making sure when the relationship blows up in his face he has an excuse as to why and can absolve himself of any blame?

Well...again, Ezri's big "issues" didn't well up until the relaunch. And I think the years have tempered Julian's ego--and the way we saw those two interact over the season strongly tells me that he truly did care for her, a great deal.

 

[Admiral Shran]

As much as it pains me to vote against Ezri, I have to go with Sarina.

I never liked the Ezri/Bashir relationship. Personally, I would have much rather perferred Ezri and Quark end up together.

 

[Trek_princess]

Garak was his true love.

Or O'Brien.

I think that Garak has always been attracted to Bashir, but I'm not sure if Bashir understood that. Bashir seemed to think that they were just good friends, which they were, but the level of emotional intimacy Garak displays towards Bashir suggests that he wouldn't mind changing that arrangement. Then there's that whole "older-man-younger-man" dynamic going on there.

I would have loved to see that relationship played out, but for some strange reason, there is next to no homosexuality in Star Trek TV, despite the fact that it's the 24th century.

 

[Myasishchev]

I thought I'd bring this up.

See, the cover blurb for the Trek novel Zero Sum Game has been revealed. It's to be a tale involving Captian Ezri Dax of the Aventine, and a duo of Starfleet Intelligence officers named Sarina Douglass...and Julian Bashir.

Ha, that's interesting. I've got a very brief Bashir cameo-bit in Revenge, that took a very similar tack. I guess it's a pretty logical extrapolation. Heck, they even gave him the beard--but that's to be expected, because Siddig looks so Goddamn boss with it.

Then again, I also implied that the Sarina thing rekindled and recollapsed in very short order, because this dude is just not built for long-term relationships.

In the blurb, it's stated that Julian has begun to think that Sarina is his true love.

Now, I'll echo the sentiment that there ain't no such thing, but Bashir (at least as far as his characterization in the series goes) is certainly idealistic--not to say emotionally immature--enough to believe in it. And to get disenchanted when it turns out to be false.

Ugh...that whole thing with Sarina reeked of sexual harassment, and I just can't get over that.

See, I always thought the reckless willingness to engage in unethical behavior to satisfy his curious attraction to wounded women*, was one of the most interesting facets of the character. The pursuit of romance under the guise of healing, and in the position of an authority figure--probably without ever really realizing it, apparently completely devoid of malice--is surely disturbing, yet on the other hand kind of pathetic. It's a flaw like I don't think we've seen in a main character in Trek. Indeed, they usually do the psychosexual stuff extremely poorly, with little middle ground between the noble man-slut and the evil mind rapist.

But, hey, I like 'em complicated.

*For the record, I think Ezri fits this category.

 

[ares93]

i voted ezri but after that groin kick she did on him in unjoined... well i don't know. it was a bit "under the belt" if you will. i wouldnt have reacted very well myself. its kind of like the "you like my sister" thing. i wouldn't be surprised if our dear mr. Mack made him get over ezri and go on with his life. although i wouldn't like it...

 

[Rush Limborg]

I thought I'd bring this up.

See, the cover blurb for the Trek novel Zero Sum Game has been revealed. It's to be a tale involving Captian Ezri Dax of the Aventine, and a duo of Starfleet Intelligence officers named Sarina Douglass...and Julian Bashir.

Ha, that's interesting. I've got a very brief Bashir cameo-bit in Revenge, that took a very similar tack. I guess it's a pretty logical extrapolation. Heck, they even gave him the beard--but that's to be expected, because Siddig looks so Goddamn boss with it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. He looks just awesome.

i voted ezri but after that groin kick she did on him in unjoined... well i don't know. it was a bit "under the belt" if you will. i wouldnt have reacted very well myself.

Absolutely. But I think the precendent for it--their argument (or more apprpriately, her arguement) in the beginning of Mission Gamma: This Grey Spirit--is even more painful. She basically accuses him of thinking she's not capable of leading in dangerous situations--when all he said was that she should stop and think about it for a minute....

She starts to do it again in Unjoined--but I think Julian gets her to snap out of that in their conversation in the end. Still...her effectively dumping him, I think, was out of a subconcious desire to not accept responsibility.

Which is why I raise my eyebrows at the claims that her reconciling with him, and their going back together, would be a "step backward". To accept responsibility, and work to make things right, is a very mature thing.

i wouldn't be surprised if our dear mr. Mack made him get over ezri and go on with his life. although i wouldn't like it...

Well, worst case scenario...if that happens...well, that's how it was with Riker and Troi....

 

[ares93]

Absolutely. But I think the precendent for it--their argument (or more apprpriately, her arguement) in the beginning of Mission Gamma: This Grey Spirit--is even more painful. She basically accuses him of thinking she's not capable of leading in dangerous situations--when all he said was that she should stop and think about it for a minute....

She starts to do it again in Unjoined--but I think Julian gets her to snap out of that in their conversation in the end. Still...her effectively dumping him, I think, was out of a subconcious desire to not accept responsibility.

Which is why I raise my eyebrows at the claims that her reconciling with him, and their going back together, would be a "step backward". To accept responsibility, and work to make things right, is a very mature thing.

i never read that book. could get a hold of it. i guess you have valid point though. but do you realize what we're doing? analyzing fictional characters :-) damn i should have never taken that psychology class...

 

[Eyes]

I think Ezri. I haven't read the relaunch novels, but I think that Ezri/Bashir in WYLB was very well handled and I think, a better choice than any of Ezri's other options, except for maybe Jake, but then any chance of a Jake/Ezri 'ship was written out at the end of Afterimage.

Sarina just seemed, from what I remember of Chrysalis, not extremely confident, and I think that would clash with Julian's ego and arrogance. It might be interesting to explore, but I don't think it could work long-term.

Ezri could probably handle Julian much better, and although they broke up in the relaunch, might just work.

 

[Thestral]

Absolutely. But I think the precendent for it--their argument (or more apprpriately, her arguement) in the beginning of Mission Gamma: This Grey Spirit--is even more painful. She basically accuses him of thinking she's not capable of leading in dangerous situations--when all he said was that she should stop and think about it for a minute....

She starts to do it again in Unjoined--but I think Julian gets her to snap out of that in their conversation in the end. Still...her effectively dumping him, I think, was out of a subconcious desire to not accept responsibility.

Which is why I raise my eyebrows at the claims that her reconciling with him, and their going back together, would be a "step backward". To accept responsibility, and work to make things right, is a very mature thing.

On the contrary. Assuming she felt some need to "make things right" (which we can't assume since five years have passed, and the necessity of which I'd dispute anyway), it doesn't neccessarily follow that they'd get back together. Acknowledging a hurt you've caused somebody doesn't require returning to that situation even if it would be healthy, and that's where I feel it would be a step back.

...except for maybe Jake, but then any chance of a Jake/Ezri 'ship was written out at the end of Afterimage.

I was really, really, hoping for a Jake/Ezri 'ship. I think it would've been fantastic! I'd read a (well-written) fanfic that explored that for sure.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I think Ezri. I haven't read the relaunch novels, but I think that Ezri/Bashir in WYLB was very well handled and I think, a better choice than any of Ezri's other options, except for maybe Jake, but then any chance of a Jake/Ezri 'ship was written out at the end of Afterimage.

Sarina just seemed, from what I remember of Chrysalis, not extremely confident, and I think that would clash with Julian's ego and arrogance. It might be interesting to explore, but I don't think it could work long-term.

Ezri could probably handle Julian much better, and although they broke up in the relaunch, might just work.

I agree. And I think the two are exactly what a couple should be--a balance.

Ezri, as I said in another thread, has a great femininity that consists of vulnerability (in the good sense--you can tell she knows her limits, and isn't unwilling to accept help from a "stronger" partner), innocence (not naivety, per se--simply a childlike wonder and desire to see the best in everythng), and enthusiasm (she has a great deal of energy--hence her often "nervous" air). She also is something of a big risk taker--to wit, "Sometimes, she doesn't think. She just does."

Julian's flamboyant spirit and self-confidence is an effective balance to her humility. Also, he is a practical, analytical fellow. Though an idealist himself, he has seen the dark side of the universe, and experienced it a lot more than Ezri has.

To paraphrase James T. Kirk: Julian's a great one for logic, Ezri, bless her heart, is a great one for...rushing in to things. Reality, of course, is somewhere in between.

While in the relaunch this sometimes results in conflict--I think, should they reconcile, it will result in their being ever the stronger--together.

Absolutely. But I think the precendent for it--their argument (or more apprpriately, her arguement) in the beginning of Mission Gamma: This Grey Spirit--is even more painful. She basically accuses him of thinking she's not capable of leading in dangerous situations--when all he said was that she should stop and think about it for a minute....

She starts to do it again in Unjoined--but I think Julian gets her to snap out of that in their conversation in the end. Still...her effectively dumping him, I think, was out of a subconcious desire to not accept responsibility.

Which is why I raise my eyebrows at the claims that her reconciling with him, and their going back together, would be a "step backward". To accept responsibility, and work to make things right, is a very mature thing.

On the contrary. Assuming she felt some need to "make things right" (which we can't assume since five years have passed, and the necessity of which I'd dispute anyway), it doesn't neccessarily follow that they'd get back together. Acknowledging a hurt you've caused somebody doesn't require returning to that situation even if it would be healthy, and that's where I feel it would be a step back.

Still, it would be healthy, and even in the end of Unjoined, they acknowledge that they still love each other.

And they were so right together--and they so clearly love each other (to say nothing of the fact that Ezri's innermost feelings, which were forced out for Worf to see, from the deepest corner of her heart...)--that somehow...again, it's like Riker and Troi. Imzadi, if you will.

...except for maybe Jake, but then any chance of a Jake/Ezri 'ship was written out at the end of Afterimage.

I was really, really, hoping for a Jake/Ezri 'ship. I think it would've been fantastic! I'd read a (well-written) fanfic that explored that for sure.

It's interesting--in "Shadows and Symbols" Jake on the runabout gives all the indications of "Hey...don't worry, honey...I'm here for you...."

Ezri seems innocently unaware of his flirtations. She interacts with him as if there's no subtext at all--leaving poor Jake kinda bewildered....

That's is a big part of her charm, I think, that she's seemingly unconcious of the effect she has on men. In "Once More Unto The Breach", she acts like she doesn't get that Quark is jealous of the Worf--and she takes his advice seriously.