"Eye of the Needle" + DS9's "One Little Ship" = Home!

[steveman]

The crew finds a subspace compression anomaly -- like the one seen in DS9's "One Little Ship" that shrunk the runabout Sisko and Co. were in -- flies through it, thus shrinking the ship, and then has a shuttle (or other alien vessel) ferry them back to the micro-wormhole seen in "Eye of the Needle."

The shrunken Voyager flies through the micro-wormhole and emerges on the other side, where Telek R'Mor (the Romulan scientist from "Eye of the Needle") is waiting aboard his ship. R'Mor then ferries the shrunken Voyager to a subspace compression anomaly in the Alpha Quadrant; Voyager flies through and becomes regular-sized once again.

At this point, Voyager is home. Of course, they'd be in the past (thanks to the micro-wormhole leading to the past instead of the present, as is established during the episode) but they could always slingshot around a sun with the goal of time-warping back to the appropriate time. Upon doing this, then Voyager would be home. Yay!

It's quite possibly the most ludicrious way Voyager could've gotten home. But, honestly, I love it.

In "Eye of the Needle," I never quite liked how they could've just beamed everyone off the ship and through the micro-wormhole, on to troop carriers that R'Mor would've had waiting. Just seemed too... easy. Of course, this never even happens, as Janeway gives up on the plan altogether when she finds out that they'd be beaming into the past.

Certainly, there are an infinite number of things that could go wrong with my plan (Could they find a shrinking anomaly in the DQ? How long would it take to find it? Back in the AQ, would time-warping around a sun work? What would the temporal ramifications of this be?). But at its most basic level -- the Voyager shrinking so it could fly through the micro-wormhole -- I like it a lot. And it's really no more ludicrious than a geriatric Janeway going back in time to take on the entire Borg Collective, right?


Discuss.

 

[Bacl]

That's actually pretty clever. Goofy, but it takes in everything from Deep Space Nine's "Honey, I Shrunk The Rio Grande" to TOS Slingshoting.

 

[Deks]

That might have worked.
But the problem is, there were no subspace compression anomalies in the area where Voyager was.
I only saw the DS9 episode in question once, but I was under the impression the anomaly was not such a regular occurrence.

 

[Finn]

^How do you know? There might have been one but for some reason they found a wormhole more interesting.

 

[Christopher]

The subspace compression field around the ship might have been destabilized by the wormhole passage, or vice-versa. As a naturally (?) occurring wormhole, the one in "Eye of the Needle" was unstable to begin with, already mostly collapsed, and mixing it with another dimensional/subspace phenomenon would've been tricky.

Indeed, as I recall, it was continuing to collapse and was expected to be gone soon after the episode, so returning wouldn't have been a likely prospect. Unless I'm misremembering.

 

[steveman]

The subspace compression field around the ship might have been destabilized by the wormhole passage, or vice-versa. As a naturally (?) occurring wormhole, the one in "Eye of the Needle" was unstable to begin with, already mostly collapsed, and mixing it with another dimensional/subspace phenomenon would've been tricky.

I think you're reading into this a little more deeply than I was. I'm simply looking at the information that was presented during the episodes in question -- and that information, quite simply, is that the ship gets small to travel through a small wormhole. Within the life of the show, I think it would work. However, if the show wanted to get scientific, what you conjecture might be true.

Indeed, as I recall, it was continuing to collapse and was expected to be gone soon after the episode, so returning wouldn't have been a likely prospect. Unless I'm misremembering.

Actually, per Memory Alpha, the wormhole had been in the process of collapsing for centuries. In that light, I'm guessing that there would have been plenty of time for the crew to leave, then come back and use it.

 

[steveman]

I'd like to point out how it'd be fun to read a book composed solely of other ways that Voyager could've gotten home -- from the Barzan wormhole, to the Bajoran wormhole, to the way I mention above. That'd really be a lot of fun.

 

[Deks]

The determining factor on why the crew decided to remain in the DQ and not beam to the Romulan ship was because of the time differential.

They would essentially break the Temporal Prime directive and SF wouldn't look too favorably on it regardless of the knowledge they would bring with them that would put the Feds in a technological advantage possibly (but again something that even the Romulan they contacted would be wary of).

Also, Voyager would have to have been left behind.
And abandoning a fully functional (not to mention technologically advanced) vessel in unknown territory would not be prudent.

We don't know how the wormhole (which was unstable to begin with) would affect Voyager in it's compressed state because one way or the other, it would be foolish to simply assume one wouldn't affect the other.

Plus as I said earlier, there were no subspace compression anomalies in the immediate area where Voyager was, not to mention friendly alien vessels that would take the time to ferry the ship to the wormhole.

But the main factor is: altering 30 years of established history.

 

[steveman]

The determining factor on why the crew decided to remain in the DQ and not beam to the Romulan ship was because of the time differential.

I point that out in my original post.

Also, Voyager would have to have been left behind.
And abandoning a fully functional (not to mention technologically advanced) vessel in unknown territory would not be prudent.

Yes... which wouldn't be a problem with my plan. I don't know if it's ever revealed what Janeway would've done with Voyager had she decided to beam the crew through the wormhole. But I very much doubt she just would've let it sit there. Memory banks would've been wiped, etc.

We don't know how the wormhole (which was unstable to begin with) would affect Voyager in it's compressed state because one way or the other, it would be foolish to simply assume one wouldn't affect the other.

Pure conjecture. I don't see what makes this any more valid than mine.

Plus as I said earlier, there were no subspace compression anomalies in the immediate area where Voyager was, not to mention friendly alien vessels that would take the time to ferry the ship to the wormhole.

I'd love to take a look at the star charts you're looking at.

But the main factor is: altering 30 years of established history.

How so? The Voyager makes contact with a single Romulan science vessel, then slingshots around a sun to a more appropriate point in time. I hardly see how that alters 30 years of established history.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Has it ever been established that the slingshot method can be used to send a vessel FORWARD in time? The way I understand, it's only ever been used or referenced in terms of going BACK in time.

 

[Renvar]

^Kirk and Co. had to slingshot back to the future (with their flux capacitor) after they had recovered the whales in The Voyage Home.

I could see a story being written out of this idea, where they do exactly as described, but end up altering the past in a horrible way and decide to travel back to the DQ and go forward in time, to stop themselves from going through the wormhole in the first place. It's just crazy enough to work!

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

^Kirk and Co. had to slingshot back to the future (with their flux capacitor) after they had recovered the whales in The Voyage Home.

I just thought I read it somewhere (I'm thinking it was a novel) that the reason they can do that, though, is because they used the same manuever to go back in time. A sort of 'retracing your footsteps' thing. Which gave me the impression that if you didn't go backwards in time via that method, you can't go forward in time the same way either.

Oh, goodie. Here comes my time travel headache again...

 

[Finn]

Has it ever been established that the slingshot method can be used to send a vessel FORWARD in time? The way I understand, it's only ever been used or referenced in terms of going BACK in time.

They did it in the Voyage home....

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Has it ever been established that the slingshot method can be used to send a vessel FORWARD in time? The way I understand, it's only ever been used or referenced in terms of going BACK in time.

They did it in the Voyage home....

I meant without having travelled backwards first. The way I understood the slingshot maneuver was that if you're using it as a time travel method, going forward in time is only possible if you've used it to go back in time first, and then you're only going to what the traveller perceives as the present.

Again, it might have just been presented this way in a novel, but that's how I understood the method. At least, as much as any time travel method CAN be understood...

 

[Vorik]

If there wasnt the time difference and they were going to beam through the wormhole I am sure that Janeway would've downloaded the memory banks and set a self destruct sequence and beam over....the loss of a ship over getting her crew to the alpha quadrant would've been very acceptable.

 

[Nebusj]

^Kirk and Co. had to slingshot back to the future (with their flux capacitor) after they had recovered the whales in The Voyage Home.

And, for that matter, they use it to get back to their present in ``Tomorrow Is Yesterday''. They were thrown back by a close encounter with a `black star'.

I note, by the way, the only star we've seen used for time-travel slingshots is that of Earth's Sun. And in describing how it works Spock refers to the Sun's magnetic field taking hold of the ship. Gravity somehow doesn't enter into it. It may be that there are unique factors to the Sun, or at least to very few stars, which make it useful for time travel without recourse to a `black star'.

(Yes, I know the reason they referred to the Sun's magnetic field is because in the 60s they thought you could use the word `magnetic' to explain absolutely any screwball requirement that made the plot come in on time. In those primitive days they hadn't yet discovered the `quantum'. It was a hard time.)

I could see a story being written out of this idea, where they do exactly as described, but end up altering the past in a horrible way and decide to travel back to the DQ and go forward in time, to stop themselves from going through the wormhole in the first place. It's just crazy enough to work!

Heck, my proposal for a Voyager movie was based on Delta Quadrant aliens who in the timeline-before-Endgame got themselves rescued by Voyager doing something to undo the Janeway Shortcut, and getting Team Janeway back in the Delta Quadrant. Then Janeway --- who I suppose hadn't yet reached the time in the 'original' journey where she does whatever she needs to do --- has to find a way to solve the Weekian problem and restore the events of 'Endgame' without causing the entire story to collapse in an impenetrable jumble of technobabble and not promoting Harry Kim.

I'm still not sure it wouldn't work.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^Kirk and Co. had to slingshot back to the future (with their flux capacitor) after they had recovered the whales in The Voyage Home.

And, for that matter, they use it to get back to their present in ``Tomorrow Is Yesterday''. They were thrown back by a close encounter with a `black star'.

Which was probably ALSO a slingshot maneuver.

 

[Turbo]

Indeed, as I recall, it was continuing to collapse and was expected to be gone soon after the episode, so returning wouldn't have been a likely prospect. Unless I'm misremembering.

You're mixing the 'collapsing for centuries' line with the fact that the probe would be crushed in less than 72 hours.

 

[Nedersong]

When I read this I thought it would've been funny if they did all of that but remained in their small size when they got home.

 

[DWF]

So where was Dr. Shrinker when you really needed him?