Explore What?

[Nardpuncher]

I agree with many others so far:
Real space exploration is exciting and wonderful, and being on a starship that's doing that would be beyond my dreams.
Watching a TV show about a crew flying around meeting aliens, talking to them and cataloging their star sytem then off to the next one wouldbe incredibly dull.

 

[DostoyevskyClone]

For me, it wasn't so much to do with space exploration as:

1. how the characters dealt with the particular issues
2. original/creative stories that had some kind of time travel/scientific-basis
3. a moral problem being explored

I think any Trek could work as long as it incorporated these elements (whether it was based on exploring the Alpha Quadrant or not). That said, if they were to make another Trek series, I think they'd be wise to get back to the Alpha Quadrant and base it on the premise of a ship exploring unknown parts of that area (even though we'd know that half the time they wouldn't even be doing that [i.e. shore leave, etc].

 

[Dayton3]

Those guys on channels such as Science, History, History International et cetera seem to manage to make stuff like stars and black holes pretty exciting.

If you can get a chunk of people to watch "The Universe" on the Science Channel, then I suspect you could produce dramatic Trek episodes that included those things that would draw viewers.

 

[Damask]

Q: "Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence."

I've always liked that line from Q. It's probably why I've always liked DS9 and the Prophets storyline. I think it picks up from what Q said.

 

[Marie1]

Why?

Give us an example plotline using those that's interesting AND entertaining.

.

I'm not a writer.

For proof, please check out my story "Playing To Win" in the FanFiction section......

But there seems to be a lot more than blackholes and quasars in your story...

In fact, I just say an "aging Jem'Hadar" named Mik (or is it just the "form" of the Jem'Hadar?) that was somehow able to appear as a Borg... in a hay field...

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Star Trek: The Fringe

Star Trek: The Alpha Quadrant Chronicles.

Star Trek: Epimetheus

A Continuity Based Series.

 

[Dayton3]

Give us an example plotline using those that's interesting AND entertaining.

.

I'm not a writer.

For proof, please check out my story "Playing To Win" in the FanFiction section......

But there seems to be a lot more than blackholes and quasars in your story...

In fact, I just say an "aging Jem'Hadar" named Mik (or is it just the "form" of the Jem'Hadar?) that was somehow able to appear as a Borg... in a hay field...

You actually read my stuff?

I thought only Mistral did that.

Yeah, Mik did appear in a couple of my story segments.

But then again, so did a black hole.

But like I said, I'm not a writer

 

[the 4th hanson bro]

To me it seems like the writers of Trek have forgotten just how interesting space itself can be.

Forget the bumpy headed aliens, the "Paramount Backlot" Planets, and the morality tales.

Doesn't anyone find pulsars, quasars, black holes, naked singularities, Wolf-Rayet stars, neutron stars, radisars, antimatter planets....what have you interesting?

In and of themselves? Sure. As the foundation for a dramatic series? Not so much.

Science Officer: "Captain, we're detecting yet another pulsar"
Captain: "Take full sensor readings, launch a probe and let's gather all the data we can"

To me, one of the greatest sins of Trek writers is that they managed to make space travel boring.

Heck, Apollo 13 was "we had an explosion then huddled in the LEM for four days freezing" yet Ron Howard managed to make a great movie about it.

Because he had great actors, playing great characters we cared about and they were put in a situation where death was a very real possibility.

The same movie about the same guys flying uneventfully to the moon, landing on the moon, and returning to Earth safely - not so exciting.

 

[Marie1]

I'm not a writer.

For proof, please check out my story "Playing To Win" in the FanFiction section......

But there seems to be a lot more than blackholes and quasars in your story...

In fact, I just say an "aging Jem'Hadar" named Mik (or is it just the "form" of the Jem'Hadar?) that was somehow able to appear as a Borg... in a hay field...

You actually read my stuff?

I thought only Mistral did that.

Yeah, Mik did appear in a couple of my story segments.

But then again, so did a black hole.

But like I said, I'm not a writer

... I followed your post up there to it^^^... I wasn't sure what to make of fanfic by "I'm not a writer" so I went to see if you were serious, but I'm only a few posts in so far.
Mistral does seem to be following your stories closely

And TS- I wouldn't quit just because your first few ideas didn't catch on right away, though I haven't been able to explore your ideas throughly yet.

I think that its important that ST doesn't forget exploration- how important and interesting it is. Not everything can be about sfx and battles- not that my fav. hasn't been the D-War (though I'd have preferred it to have a lower Jemmie body count).

 

[kv1at3485]

If ST really wanted to explore something, it should explore how 24th century people live. With the changes to culture and society that would result with their technology, you'd think every episode would be replete with surprises, just in the way people behave and live.

But no. ST is quite obsessed with exploring and showing how 20th century people live, in an environment where that makes absolutely no sense. No wonder whenever I get the tiny urge to watch ST, I figure I'd get the same thing by turning on the news. Better context to boot that way too.

 

[Marie1]

Well, we're not in the 24ths century, for all we know, in the 24th century, we still haven't found any aliens...

I personally like to interpret how people live from whats being see while they do other things, how they handle other things... having just "character building episodes" In my personal opinion, would be abysmal... we don't need the stars to explore the 24th C.

 

[kv1at3485]

Well, we're not in the 24ths century, for all we know, in the 24th century, we still haven't found any aliens...

I'm talking about in the ST context here, unless that wasn't obvious.

I personally like to interpret how people live from whats being see while they do other things, how they handle other things... having just "character building episodes" In my personal opinion, would be abysmal... we don't need the stars to explore the 24th C.

Exactly, in how they do things, which is how they live. Instead of having caricatures of 20th century people coming across caricatures of 20th century problems and solving them in an all-too-20th century mindset, it should be 24th century people coming across 24th century problems and solving them with a 24th century mindset.

 

[Marie1]

My point was that even in a show set in the 24th C, we're still writing it from our perspective, so even theorizing how we would react to things is going to be similar to how we react now- and reactions are so varied due to race/religion... whatever that not only can everyone not be pleased, reactions are usually very polar and split... and that makes writing decent work hard.

And I've found ST to way ahead of its time- DS9 Past Tense for today's political goings on, for instance. Its actually doing good. The problem is that people are always repeating the same stupid mistakes now, so its likely we'll be repeating the same mistakes, and using the same temporary solutions. Not to be pessimistic. I just think there's a limit to how much 24C mindset we can expect.

But the simple answer is that the writers stick to the 20th C mindset so people will relate to it.

 

[kv1at3485]

My point was that even in a show set in the 24th C, we're still writing it from our perspective, so even theorizing how we would react to things is going to be similar to how we react now- and reactions are so varied due to race/religion... whatever that not only can everyone not be pleased, reactions are usually very polar and split... and that makes writing decent work hard.

Which is no excuse to not try, and ST hasn't tried.

And I've found ST to way ahead of its time- DS9 Past Tense for today's political goings on, for instance. Its actually doing good. The problem is that people are always repeating the same stupid mistakes now, so its likely we'll be repeating the same mistakes, and using the same temporary solutions. Not to be pessimistic. I just think there's a limit to how much 24C mindset we can expect.

ST isn't ahead of its time at all. In fact, it's quite behind. At least today, you may have greedy people, but everywhere you have people trying to get ahead, trying to use what they've got to the full to forward themselves and their peers.

In ST, you have people who are dead stupid. The immature utilization of the science and technology they have is proof enough of this. The only reason ST works is because everybody is stupid in ST. It would take but a few people with a 20th century head on their shoulders to kick the rest into the dustbin of history.

Which is weird. People say ST is such a great storytelling medium. Well, in my view, stupid characters do not make for compelling storytelling, unless it's a comedy.

I guess I should take back my previous assertion: ST is not about people solving problems with a 20th century mindset or paradigm. They don't have a viable problem solving mindset at all, 20th century or otherwise.

 

[Marie1]

In some aspects they're behind maybe- but in some ways, they were ahead.

When you watched DS9 Past Tense parts 1 and 2, back in 1995, did you think that today, in 2008, those circumstances would be happening? Or did you say no, humanity wouldn't be like that?

 

[kv1at3485]

When you watched DS9 Past Tense parts 1 and 2, back in 1995, did you think that today, in 2008, those circumstances would be happening? Or did you say no, humanity wouldn't be like that?

I did not think things would be like in Past Tense, simply because I've never regarded ST as an accurate predictor or depicter of history. Neither did I think that such things would never in future. The diversity of the future, in all things, dictates that somewhere, sometime, unfortunate things will happen.

Not that ST has much in the way in diversity to begin with, but there you go.

 

[Marie1]

I'm not saying "would be" like Past Tense- look around you- in a lot of places, they already are, or have been recently, even in the US. Humans ain't learning quickly...

How is ST not diverse? From Uhura to... all the other races, its been quite tolerant that way.

 

[kv1at3485]

I'm not saying "would be" like Past Tense- look around you- in a lot of places, they already are, or have been recently, even in the US. Humans ain't learning quickly...

You'd be hard pressed to find a period of history without some sort of injustice going on. So I fail to see how Past Tense is prescient.

How is ST not diverse? From Uhura to... all the other races, its been quite tolerant that way.

The diversity is shallow. Is it really so important that the guys in the next system have a different series of head ridges if they behave exactly the same way?

ST is seriously lacking in cultural diversity.

 

[Dayton3]

I'm not saying "would be" like Past Tense- look around you- in a lot of places, they already are, or have been recently, even in the US. Humans ain't learning quickly...

You'd be hard pressed to find a period of history without some sort of injustice going on. So I fail to see how Past Tense is prescient.

How is ST not diverse? From Uhura to... all the other races, its been quite tolerant that way.

The diversity is shallow. Is it really so important that the guys in the next system have a different series of head ridges if they behave exactly the same way?

ST is seriously lacking in cultural diversity.

You have a point regarding "aliens with head ridges that act the same".

In another thread someone said regarding having aliens and humans serve together aboard starships.

What if an alien Starfleet officer was stationed aboard a starship with humans that had the thousand year long custom of giving birth every two years to four babies.

And the mother and father always killed and ate the three weakest and allowed only the strongest baby to survive.

Or something to that effect.

Would humans be willing to tolerate that kind of thing in their midst?

 

[Sci]

I would contend that a competent writer can build an interesting episode around an astronomical phenomenon -- but I would contend that the phenomenon wouldn't actually be what the episode is about. The phenomenon, whatever it might be, would have to be the catalyst, and/or a metaphor for, something important that's going on in the characters' lives. The Doctor Who episode "The End of the World," for instance, is built around the idea of the Sun expanding to destroy Earth. One could imagine, for instance, a pulsar or supernova used in a story to represent the idea of renewal or new life, whilst dark matter could be used to represent depression and existential anguish. It depends on its execution.

The problem, of course, is that most of Trek's writers over the years haven't produced stories that were sufficiently emotional or character-based to make those kinds of episodes work. But if you get a writer like Aaron Sorkin or Russell T. Davies or Joss Whedon on the job, and you could get a decent story. Don't believe me? Watch the West Wing episode "Galileo."