Excessive Criticism of "STAR TREK VOYAGER"
- Thread starter LJones41
- Start date
Yeah, we know. We're just messing with you.Just reminding you that we do have a sense of humor.
And so have I!
And I had no problem to see the joke in mentioning those lame episodes.
But just seeing it being wiped out officially would be a small victory
You're absolutely right about that. I must admit that I found him a bit moody in season one which affected my then opinion of him.
But when I finally got the chance to watch the whole series, I really saw the development of the character.
Personally I'd rather seen that they developed Harry than dump him or kill him off. He did have potential.
Chakotay was actually good in season 1, season 2 and partly in season 3 too before they shoved him in the background. Nemesis was probably the last acceptable Chakotay episode. But he had a lot of premise and could also have been written better instead of shove him in the background or kill him off.
I agree on your comment about Kes and Seven. There was room for both in the series
As for The Gift, it would have been better if she had left with that Zahir in Dakling and maybe could have returned later on in a better way and then stayed as a member of the crew.
Sorry, I don't find The Gift good at all. That energy-being mumbo-jumbo was just bad.
As I wrote before, it would have been better if she had left with that Zahir in Dakling and maybe could have returned later on in a better way and then stayed as a member of the crew.
Nah, that would have been too much Stargate Universe over it. That stupidity with some "magic stones" which they used to travel back an from Earth.
Kim would hardly have been interesting in such a role. Not to mention that VOY was supposed to be about a ship lost in space, a premise which stupid writers and producers ruined already in season 4 with the episode Message In A Bottle.
As I wrote before, it would have been better if they had tried to develope the character as he was.
This is a small piece of why so much of the criticism of Voyager is justified. The link here involves studio interference, though I'm fairly certain Berman and Braga weren't helpful; I expect the "someone gotta be duh ensign" stupidity was theirs.
When Nog needed a change in direction, the writers were allowed to have him make one. When Bashir's character was foundering, the showrunners brought in his genetic enhancement, his spy games, and his recruitment by S31. When a Voyager character was in trouble, an effort was made to salvage him... and look what happened.
screenrant.com
When Nog needed a change in direction, the writers were allowed to have him make one. When Bashir's character was foundering, the showrunners brought in his genetic enhancement, his spy games, and his recruitment by S31. When a Voyager character was in trouble, an effort was made to salvage him... and look what happened.
Star Trek: Voyager Cut A Huge Harry Kim Twist, Says Garrett Wang
Harry Kim's big season 3 twist was cut.
screenrant.com
I have to state hat I actually like Favorite Son.This is a small piece of why so much of the criticism of Voyager is justified. The link here involves studio interference, though I'm fairly certain Berman and Braga weren't helpful; I expect the "someone gotta be duh ensign" stupidity was theirs.
When Nog needed a change in direction, the writers were allowed to have him make one. When Bashir's character was foundering, the showrunners brought in his genetic enhancement, his spy games, and his recruitment by S31. When a Voyager character was in trouble, an effort was made to salvage him... and look what happened.
Star Trek: Voyager Cut A Huge Harry Kim Twist, Says Garrett Wang
Harry Kim's big season 3 twist was cut.
Harry for once in an exciting role with some action, an episode not so gloomy as The Chute where the only purpose for those in charge were to having him being beaten up a couple of times.
The plot with those "DNA vampires" was actually a bit spooky and exciting.
The only thing I did find ridiculous was just that plot about Harry being a Taresian, his embryo inplanted in his mother and that he once was bound to return to Taresia.
OK, his Taresian ancestry turned out to be fake and he had actually been infected with that "Taresian virus" on a planet they visited, an event which took place at Stardate 50608, shortly after Voyager left the Mikhal Travelers outpost in the episode Darkling.
But still, the whole idea of Kim being an alien and the story how he came to earth was actually crazy.
And now I'm told that those in charge of the show actually planned to make that scenario permanent. What were they thinking of?
When it comes to Nog, his development took off in an unexpected way but still a realistic scenario when he decided to join Starfleet. I mean, why not?
Bashir's genetic enchance is a little harder for me to buy. In fact, I didn't really like it because bashir was good as he already was. making him genetically enchanced was ovet the top as I see it and not necessary. But still a possible scenario.
But making harry a Taresian seems just like a bad idea. How coould they come up with something like that.
What they should have done was to develope the character in the same way as NCIS made with McGee who was some sort of geek and almost a laughing stock in thefirst seasons but who developed into a skilled field agent.
Harry should have developed in the same way, from "young Ensign Kim" to a skilled Starfleeet officer and who would have earned a promotion for that.
I'd heard about this, and we had a lucky escape. If it was Deep Space Nine and Harry was a Bajoran who joined Starfleet because he was drawn to space, then I could buy it, because the wormhole is right there. It's basically Odo's story in fact. But the odds of Harry being an alien from 70,000 light years away who ended up as one of the 200 or so people to be pulled into that exact part of space and just happened to drive past the planet on his way home are.... slim.
Let's say that there was a 1/10,000 chance that Harry was on one of the two Starfleet ships to be brought into the Delta Quadrant, instead of on another ship, or starbase, or planet (or still at the academy seeing as he only just graduated), so that's already pretty unlikely. The area of the galaxy is about 8 trillion cubic light-years so the odds of those ships ending up on the exact other side of the alien planet, 2500 light years away is about... man I don't even have the first clue how to calculate that. Though 'one in a million' sounds like it'd be far too small.
I can accept that Neelix just happened to run into one of the many Talaxian colonies and that Voyager just happened to run into the Ares IV, because weird stuff is everywhere. But Delta Quadrant alien Kim stumbling across his home... nope, basically impossible.
Making him alien would've been pointless anyway, because he still would've been Harry Kim. He wasn't hiding anything like Bashir was, he doesn't have an alien upbringing like Spock or have any attachment to an alien culture like Worf. And most TV shows are stuck with entirely human characters, so it's not like writers don't know how to make humans interesting.
Let's say that there was a 1/10,000 chance that Harry was on one of the two Starfleet ships to be brought into the Delta Quadrant, instead of on another ship, or starbase, or planet (or still at the academy seeing as he only just graduated), so that's already pretty unlikely. The area of the galaxy is about 8 trillion cubic light-years so the odds of those ships ending up on the exact other side of the alien planet, 2500 light years away is about... man I don't even have the first clue how to calculate that. Though 'one in a million' sounds like it'd be far too small.
I can accept that Neelix just happened to run into one of the many Talaxian colonies and that Voyager just happened to run into the Ares IV, because weird stuff is everywhere. But Delta Quadrant alien Kim stumbling across his home... nope, basically impossible.
Making him alien would've been pointless anyway, because he still would've been Harry Kim. He wasn't hiding anything like Bashir was, he doesn't have an alien upbringing like Spock or have any attachment to an alien culture like Worf. And most TV shows are stuck with entirely human characters, so it's not like writers don't know how to make humans interesting.
Easy solution... simple have Harry's DNA altering retrovirus be impossible for the EMH to reverse. As the transformation continues, he might gain new knowledge or abilities.
Point is, his character was going nowhere, they tried to do something to fix him, they were ordered not to.
Indeed. They could have developed him in any number of ways. Take a look at Jake, Bashir, and Nog for characters who were early in their journey and found ways to develop and grow. Then, compare that to Chakotay being relegated to the back burner, B'Elanna doing most of her potential development in the show's second episode and spending the next seven years on the endless "B'Elanna has to accept being Klingon" treadmill, Voyager magically regenerating all damage and lost shuttles, and Harry doing a whole lotta nothin'.
I'm not sure that would have been a good change.
Yes, it could have made Harry a more interesting figure and a source of interesting stories .... but with bad writing (and we did see some of that in Voyager) we might as well have gotten yet another angst-ridden human-alien hybrid ('my Taresian side is battling with my human side and I Must Suffer!').
I'm not objecting so much that the change was vetoed... just that it was vetoed in favor of doing nothing. The fact that the studio thought it was a good idea to let any character just stagnate shows their ineptitude. And the fact that Berman refused to even promote him similarly shows that he was no better. Basically, Voyager struggled due to bad leadership, and DS9 became one of the best Treks because the powers that be were too busy ruining Voyager.
Yeah, I agree. A lot of why the writers did nothing with Harry was down to Wang being a jerk who never did his job right but at least this would've been an attempt at something. Having him be mutated by these aliens and the mutation can't be undone would've shown that VOY was trying to not be status quo 100% of the time.
Conflict of values, the disgrace to his family, the incompatibility between cultures?
Other than that, no reason for Nog to join Starfleet.
Tongue slightly in cheek, but seriously it was unexpected, and definitely not how the character started out, especially with the Ferengi in DS9. Voyager never took that risk.
Unexpected, true, but we do see things like that in real life. Also, he does give an 'intrinsic motivation' - he doesn't want to end up like his uncle, but to do something with his life (and apparently he felt he could do what it was he wanted better in Starfleet than in the Ferengi Alliance).
Nog didn't want to end up like his father, not uncle. But agreed, it makes sense and there are real life examples of that.
I also think, in a subtle way, being best friends with Jake gave him another role model to emulate... Ben Sisko. With his own father, Nog saw how purposeless his life could end up. With Jake's dad, he saw how full of purpose it could be.
Nog's scene explaining to Ben why he wanted to join Starfleet was among Aron's best performances. I would put it second only to "IT'S ONLY A PAPER MOON"... especially when he tells Vic why he feels he can't go back out in the real world.
It is also my stubborn head canon that the events of "Sanctuary" had an effect on Nog. He played a mean prank on some other kids... a few days later, their atoms were scattered across the Bajoran ionosphere. Maybe he felt that he needed to seriously rethink his life.
I think it would've been interesting if alien crewmembers had joined the ship along the way, travelling with them for a while until they reached their own destinations, but I can't see many volunteers signing up to take a trip to the other side of the galaxy that they probably won't live to see the end of.
I agree with this. If nothing else, it would have given us some recurring characters. As opposed to the lineup of 9 main characters, a couple of kids, and a whole lot of meaningless redshirts.
You might be surprised. Some DQ aliens could be wanting a fresh start, snd see the Federation as a golden opportunity. Look at the young officer who escaped the quadrant as a child, and aided Janeway near the end of Prodigy's first season.
Yeah, but the Protostar was fast enough to get people to Earth while they were still a child! You make a fair point though.
I wouldn't know about that.
Before you know it, some AQ politician will become popular by proposing a space wall, to keep those of the DQ out.... and make the DQ pay for it, too.
They could be refugees wanting to get away from the DQ and didn't care where they went, or someone on VOY got killed because of them and they wanted to make it up by serving on the ship and leaving home, stuff like that.
Look at Farscape, yes the characters were mostly criminals but they all had their reasons for being on Moya and not their homes.
