Plus, having Excelsior twice as long as Constitution really sells "By God, that's a big ship!"
I re-scaled the size comparison image that's floating around with a 442m Enterprise and a 622m Excelsior, I think it still works.
Excelsior Technical Manual: Grand Finale
- Thread starter Praetor
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I re-scaled the size comparison image that's floating around with a 442m Enterprise and a 622m Excelsior, I think it still works.
Sorry, I really can't see it - especially when Deck 6 doesn't even have the full 4 turbolifts in the inner circle (like Deck 5)
Am I misinterpreting something?
I re-scaled the size comparison image that's floating around with a 442m Enterprise and a 622m Excelsior, I think it still works.
Honestly, me too. Nice work.
Sorry, I really can't see it - especially when Deck 6 doesn't even have the full 4 turbolifts in the inner circle (like Deck 5)
Am I misinterpreting something?
No, I'm just doing a poor job explaining. Here's a quick-and-dirty Photoshop recoloring to try to illustrate:
You can hopefully now see that on Deck 07 the second circumferential corridor has no turboshaft, which is bridged by the short section centered at Deck 06's second circumferential corridor above. The fifth circumferential corridor on Deck 07 is also passable except for back at the impulse engine extension, which should be at least enough to be useful for traversing 80% of the deck on foot if needed.
The core section on Deck 07 probably won't look exactly like I depict above, but will connect all the radial turboshafts similar to what is shown above (and as was shown on my previous versions.)
More to come!
Plus, having Excelsior twice as long as Constitution really sells "By God, that's a big ship!"
Even at 467m the Excelsior has around 3.7 times the volume of a refit Constitution. At 622m the Excelsior would be 8.7 times the volume of a refit Constitution and about 85% the volume of a Sovereign! Still significantly smaller overall than an Ambassador though, by about 30%.
Thanks for doing that math, I have always being terrible at the volumetric analyses. That actually makes me feel a lot better about deciding to focus on the 467 meter canonical version.
I take that as a tremendous compliment, thank you! And look forward to following when you do so.
I did the adjusted 17 meter executive shuttle scale analysis and I think she's still a bit too big, sadly:
Now I have to figure out the bridge module. Oy.
More to come!
Aha, now I see it! My brain was trying to cram something into Deck 6 which was wasn't there!
Well, as I alluded to previously it's time to figure out the bridge module. Allow me to reiterate: "Oy." I knew it was going to be headache-inducing but I don't think I had any idea just how headache-inducing it would ultimately be.
As most of you know, the bridge module is a narrow oval, much narrower than the bridge modules of the Enterprise or Reliant. This of course changed for "TUC" along with the bridge set, where we previously had a fairly simple round dome. There are items which appear to be observation windows at the back, along with a few smaller porthole style windows at the front. The flared out rear section also suggests this might be two decks high. (This is the Jein model but it's consistent enough to not particularly matter.)
The bridge as shown in "TUC" simply won't fit. So, what to do? I think there are three options:
I've kept the outer ring (perhaps some kind of bridge deflector shield generator?) and the shallow raised platform, but I'm in the process of drawing the bridge into the traditional module.
I generally intend to follow the concept of "Mr. Scott's Guide" minus the adjusted turbolifts:
The turbolifts at the side are, of course, problematic, but if we can squint and pretend it works on the Enterprise-A we can do the same here as far as I'm concerned/. The rear section with the extra doors provides a secondary direct access to the bridge, and will likely have small security doors. I will likely put a small head on the starboard side, and will only allow access to the rear from the portside turbolift.
Admittedly, this is a drastic adjustment to the exterior of the ship, and almost certainly the most egregious one that I'll make, but in keeping with my desire to depict the "real" starship I don't see that there's much of a choice. Honestly, if anybody has a better idea other than rescaling the whole ship or an option that I haven't considered, as the Ferengi say "I'm all ears."
More to come!
As most of you know, the bridge module is a narrow oval, much narrower than the bridge modules of the Enterprise or Reliant. This of course changed for "TUC" along with the bridge set, where we previously had a fairly simple round dome. There are items which appear to be observation windows at the back, along with a few smaller porthole style windows at the front. The flared out rear section also suggests this might be two decks high. (This is the Jein model but it's consistent enough to not particularly matter.)
The bridge as shown in "TUC" simply won't fit. So, what to do? I think there are three options:
- Submerge the bridge and ignore what is seen as some sort of sensor module
- Design a new bridge module that is similar to the one seen on the model and incorporates an observation lounge/briefing room
- Apply the Enterprise/Reliant bridge module to the ship at the correct scale
I've kept the outer ring (perhaps some kind of bridge deflector shield generator?) and the shallow raised platform, but I'm in the process of drawing the bridge into the traditional module.
I generally intend to follow the concept of "Mr. Scott's Guide" minus the adjusted turbolifts:
The turbolifts at the side are, of course, problematic, but if we can squint and pretend it works on the Enterprise-A we can do the same here as far as I'm concerned/. The rear section with the extra doors provides a secondary direct access to the bridge, and will likely have small security doors. I will likely put a small head on the starboard side, and will only allow access to the rear from the portside turbolift.
Admittedly, this is a drastic adjustment to the exterior of the ship, and almost certainly the most egregious one that I'll make, but in keeping with my desire to depict the "real" starship I don't see that there's much of a choice. Honestly, if anybody has a better idea other than rescaling the whole ship or an option that I haven't considered, as the Ferengi say "I'm all ears."
More to come!
Don't forget, a veritable butt-load of extra porthole lights were added to the original NX-style Excelsior dome, post-TSFS, but pre-TUC, for TVH during the Spacedock flyover scene:
The way these lights were positioned kind-of implies that the main bridge structure was potentially three decks tall!
The way these lights were positioned kind-of implies that the main bridge structure was potentially three decks tall!
I was going to point out those observation-lounge-style windows, but then I remembered that there is retroactive precedent with Discovery's deck-zero "attic" conference/ready room above the bridge.Moving the bridge down one level seems to be require the least alteration of the external features, IMHO
Though I think I've been convinced over the years that the only rational option in an irrational world is to make the ship bigger. C'mon, don't you want all the windows to be the same distance above the deck? Isn't it a little tempting?
Oof, thank you for reminding me. I think.
Moving the bridge down one level seems to be require the least alteration of the external features, IMHO
Agreed entirely. Also, what's the point of a bridge module if a bridge isn't in it?
I was going to point out those observation-lounge-style windows, but then I remembered that there is retroactive precedent with Discovery's deck-zero "attic" conference/ready room above the bridge.
Though I think I've been convinced over the years that the only rational option in an irrational world is to make the ship bigger. C'mon, don't you want all the windows to be the same distance above the deck? Isn't it a little tempting?
Tempting? I have no idea what you're talking about.
The bridge still doesn't work very well even at 622 meters long. Those bridge modules just... suck.
And I'd like to point out that this is old, I'm not jumping ship. Pun intended.
To be fair the Enterprise-A bridge as seen in its Star Trek VI configuration won't fit in its bridge dome either! It's an Undiscovered Country tradition
They must have used the same starship decorator that did the windows on the Oberth-class...
Cool, do you happen to have a screen cap of this or know which episode it appears in?
(Although I would argue that TMOST's cross-section had what appeared to be the circular conference room up at the top of the saucer as well.)
Cool, do you happen to have a screen cap of this or know which episode it appears in?
Pretty much every episode since season two. There was originally a small ready room behind the bridge that they converted into a science lab when they built the set for the new, larger ready room. Here's an interior screencap, and here's a shot where you can see the windows from the outside, above and behind the bridge dome (well, sphere). The window pattern doesn't quite match, IIRC, the model initially had five windows there, so they just removed two of them to better match the new set.
Thanks @David cgc for the screencaps and the background.
@David cgc Thanks for that, I never even realized.
Not a ton of updates to show, but I'm going through and cleaning up the upper saucer levels:
The main bridge is still mostly a placeholder but it gave me what I needed to refine the turboshafts. Deck Two's forward section will be a briefing room, and the aft section divided between Captain's and First Officer's ready rooms/offices. (The long section will still be the subspace antenna.) Deck 04 features a placeholder phaser control room forward, flanked by two sensor maintenance rooms. As you can tell, each of these will be based on the lounge/galley "TNG"/"TUC" set. I will likely fill in the inner ring with more of these rooms on this deck. There have been minor corridor and turboshaft adjustments on each deck.
I'd also like to share a preview of Deck 13, with some callouts:
Generally this is what I'm thinking for placement of features on that deck. I've also gone through and started filling in some of the basics of the lower secondary hull but I'm not quite ready to share that.
Feedback welcome as always. More to come!
Not a ton of updates to show, but I'm going through and cleaning up the upper saucer levels:
The main bridge is still mostly a placeholder but it gave me what I needed to refine the turboshafts. Deck Two's forward section will be a briefing room, and the aft section divided between Captain's and First Officer's ready rooms/offices. (The long section will still be the subspace antenna.) Deck 04 features a placeholder phaser control room forward, flanked by two sensor maintenance rooms. As you can tell, each of these will be based on the lounge/galley "TNG"/"TUC" set. I will likely fill in the inner ring with more of these rooms on this deck. There have been minor corridor and turboshaft adjustments on each deck.
I'd also like to share a preview of Deck 13, with some callouts:
Generally this is what I'm thinking for placement of features on that deck. I've also gone through and started filling in some of the basics of the lower secondary hull but I'm not quite ready to share that.
Feedback welcome as always. More to come!
I've spent a surprising amount of time today cleaning up some of the saucer deck compartments and corridors.
It's been slow going today but I don't really like to let a day pass without something to show:
You can see the most difference if you compare Deck 04-06 to Deck 07. I'm not cheating and reusing segments because I want to maintain precise alignment of each deck, hence the slow going. I still have to refine how I want to define the compartments at the aft section of the saucer around the impulse area.
I don't remember if I pointed it out but I decided to add a second vertical turboshaft in the central turboshaft "ring" to avoid traffic congestion. I was generally thinking how complex the software that routes turbolifts on a starship must be; from routing the turbolifts without running into each other to how a car is summoned to a turbolift stop if someone else has just taken it. I think it speaks to how we Trekkies tend to take for granted the complexity level of the Trekverse for granted sometimes (or at least I do).
Anyhoo, just a quick update for today. More to come!
It's been slow going today but I don't really like to let a day pass without something to show:
You can see the most difference if you compare Deck 04-06 to Deck 07. I'm not cheating and reusing segments because I want to maintain precise alignment of each deck, hence the slow going. I still have to refine how I want to define the compartments at the aft section of the saucer around the impulse area.
I don't remember if I pointed it out but I decided to add a second vertical turboshaft in the central turboshaft "ring" to avoid traffic congestion. I was generally thinking how complex the software that routes turbolifts on a starship must be; from routing the turbolifts without running into each other to how a car is summoned to a turbolift stop if someone else has just taken it. I think it speaks to how we Trekkies tend to take for granted the complexity level of the Trekverse for granted sometimes (or at least I do
).Anyhoo, just a quick update for today. More to come!
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