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Examining the problems with original character Trek movies

Chrisisall

Chrisisall

Commodore
Commodore
#1- Colourless & adventureless. Too straight-faced for its own good.

#2- Kirk with a son. Egregious science, technical & common sense errors (more than usual, anyway). Khan's hair.

#3- Death of David was gratutious & cheap. Final fight between Kirk & Krudge was lame (like, Robocop 3 lame).

#4- Some silly, forced humour. Recycled Earth-in-danger plot device.

#5- Some stupid, forced humour. Crap Enterprise FX. Soap-opera-like heretofore unknown brother appearance.

#6- Hand phaser effect-on-object inconsistencies, Shatner toupee colour inconsistencies, stupid Klingon blood colour (hey, I had to write something, right?).

#11- Concrete aparrent in the engine room, some silly, forced humour, iron pipes in the engine room, questionable Spock character choices (teh kissing, sending Kirk to Delta Vega), hanging lights in the engine room, the engine room.

Whatdya think?
 
Chrisisall said:
#11- Concrete aparrent in the engine room, some silly, forced humour, iron pipes in the engine room, questionable Spock character choices (teh kissing, sending Kirk to Delta Vega), hanging lights in the engine room, the engine room.

Whatdya think?
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This leads me to think that maybe you have a problem with the engine room, but I can't put my finger on why. Maybe its just a vibe I'm getting here. C'mon Chris, tell us what you really think. :p



;) :lol:
 
Chrisisall said:
#3- Death of David was gratutious & cheap.
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I thought the sequence with David's death and Kirk's subsequent reaction was one of the best moments in all of Trek. It's a scene that is devoid entirely of a telegraphing musical score or 'gratuitous' combat - it's very gritty and real, and happens very quickly. Try to remember seeing it for the first time... Saavik's about to die by the hands of a bloodthirsty Klingon. David spins and goes into hero-mode... Kirk's son will save the day! Hearts are uplifted! Cue the triumphant Kirk-fight-score...

...the 'thwuk' noise you just heard is the sound of a Klingon blade gutting David Marcus after an ineffectual struggle. Kirk is informed of the news and is literally floored, as was this moviegoer...
 
Anticitizen said:
...the 'thwuk' noise you just heard is the sound of a Klingon blade gutting David Marcus after an ineffectual struggle. Kirk is informed of the news and is literally floored, as was this moviegoer...
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I would have preferred it to have been Savvik.:techman:
 
Chrisisall said:
#1- Colourless & adventureless. Too straight-faced for its own good.

#2- Kirk with a son. Egregious science, technical & common sense errors (more than usual, anyway). Khan's hair.

#3- Death of David was gratutious & cheap. Final fight between Kirk & Krudge was lame (like, Robocop 3 lame).

#4- Some silly, forced humour. Recycled Earth-in-danger plot device.

#5- Some stupid, forced humour. Crap Enterprise FX. Soap-opera-like heretofore unknown brother appearance.

#6- Hand phaser effect-on-object inconsistencies, Shatner toupee colour inconsistencies, stupid Klingon blood colour (hey, I had to write something, right?).

#11- Concrete aparrent in the engine room, some silly, forced humour, iron pipes in the engine room, questionable Spock character choices (teh kissing, sending Kirk to Delta Vega), hanging lights in the engine room, the engine room.

Whatdya think?
Click to expand...

See, I didn't think the TOS movies had many problems. They translated very well to film.

It was the TNG films that had problems and struggled badly, IMO.
 
Chrisisall said:
Penhall99 said:
It was the TNG films that had problems and struggled badly, IMO.
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I see your point, but First Contact was good & Insurrection was excellent IMO.
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I think the TNG films are mostly good. Three out of four of them I like a lot, and I think they stand better when I rank them all than do the TOS films.

Though I very much disagree that Insurrection was excellent. It's my least favourite, TMP aside.

Also, I can't help but notice you include XI as a TOS film. Which it just isn't.
 
Anticitizen said:
Chrisisall said:
#3- Death of David was gratutious & cheap.
Click to expand...

I thought the sequence with David's death and Kirk's subsequent reaction was one of the best moments in all of Trek. It's a scene that is devoid entirely of a telegraphing musical score or 'gratuitous' combat - it's very gritty and real, and happens very quickly. ...
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Agreed completely.

And disagree with most of the OP!

As much as I prefer the TNG TV series to TOS, the TOS movies completely rule over the TNG movies. For whatever reason, TNG just didn't make the transition as successfully.
 
Chrisisall said:
#

#11- Concrete aparrent in the engine room, some silly, forced humour, iron pipes in the engine room, questionable Spock character choices (teh kissing, sending Kirk to Delta Vega), hanging lights in the engine room, the engine room.

Whatdya think?
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention the engine room. OMG the engine room...Scotty in the water pipes. 19th century taps. 20th Century plumbing. Beer. The non-cylindrical interior of a cylinder. Plumbing... dear GOD.
 
lucas1701 said:
Chrisisall said:
#

#11- Concrete aparrent in the engine room, some silly, forced humour, iron pipes in the engine room, questionable Spock character choices (teh kissing, sending Kirk to Delta Vega), hanging lights in the engine room, the engine room.

Whatdya think?
Click to expand...

You forgot to mention the engine room. OMG the engine room...Scotty in the water pipes. 19th century taps. 20th Century plumbing. Beer. The non-cylindrical interior of a cylinder. Plumbing... dear GOD.
Click to expand...
Since when has the "warp drive" section of the Enterprise been presented as a single room stretching from bulkhead to bulkhead? Most presentation in TOS showed engineering to be in large rooms with angles, not curves. Usually accessed from a corridor.
 
Chrisisall said:
#1- Colourless & adventureless. Too straight-faced for its own good.

#2- Kirk with a son. Egregious science, technical & common sense errors (more than usual, anyway). Khan's hair.

#3- Death of David was gratutious & cheap. Final fight between Kirk & Krudge was lame (like, Robocop 3 lame).

#4- Some silly, forced humour. Recycled Earth-in-danger plot device.

#5- Some stupid, forced humour. Crap Enterprise FX. Soap-opera-like heretofore unknown brother appearance.

#6- Hand phaser effect-on-object inconsistencies, Shatner toupee colour inconsistencies, stupid Klingon blood colour (hey, I had to write something, right?).

#11- Concrete aparrent in the engine room, some silly, forced humour, iron pipes in the engine room, questionable Spock character choices (teh kissing, sending Kirk to Delta Vega), hanging lights in the engine room, the engine room.

Whatdya think?
Click to expand...

I think you pick too many nits. God knows that's easy to do with Trek.

The first three ST movies are very good. Nothing in them annoys me as much as it apparently does you.

#4 is entertaining (it's a bit dated but I enjoy it...call it a guilty pleasure.) TWOK is IMO probably the best ST film overall, TSFP is underrated and I see it as an extension of II (great crew moments, death of the E), TMP is even more underrated and has some grand epic moments (oh ye of short attention spans, it's a movie about ideas, not a space opera), and XI is just great fun, brilliantly executed. I forgive it its flaws quite easily for its manifold virtues and superb cast.

TUC #5 is a bad movie. For all the reasons you cite and many more. I'll grant you that. I don't like #6 either. A personal thing.

Other than First Contact, I think TNG films are generally much worse.

One could prolly write a book on Shatner toupee's, and I've seen the ones he wears IRL lots of times too, sometimes changing from June to September, so just changing gels on the cameras in the flicks is pretty certain not to through me.
 
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