Thank you for your help.
Exaclibur or EAS Excalibur?
- Thread starter ProwlAlpha
- Start date
Okay, now that that's settled, let's just try to find out where exactly the hell the rank of Major fits in to the Earth Alliance's rank system.
*sound of Pandora's Box being opened*
*sound of Pandora's Box being opened*
OOh, I've watched this episode before, it's an entertaining one. <Sindatur cracks open a bag of popcorn and sits down to watch the entertainment>.Okay, now that that's settled, let's just try to find out where exactly the hell the rank of Major fits in to the Earth Alliance's rank system.
*sound of Pandora's Box being opened*
from my understanding there military is on the same basis as the air force . I mean look at the battle to free earth the highest ranking military officer is general not admiral . and major would fit in that ranking systym . where as the federation is based on the navy .
^Actually, Admirals are in there too. Whatever system EF has it's not identical to anything from any particular 20th/21st century Earth military. Makes sense really as any military history buff will tell you, ranks can their structure are in a pretty constant state of flux across the centuries. Some ranks move up, move down, to the side, come in and out of use or invented specifically for a specific purpose depending on the needs of the service. Even if it looks loopy to us I'm sure it works for EF quite well and given that we don't have any real point of comparison (unless anyone knows of an international military force responsible for dozens of off-world colonies, outpost and Earth planetary security and I somehow missed it) we'll have to take their word for it. 
As for Major; According to Copeland it's right above Captain and below Lt. Col. If anyone has trouble with that, go take it up with him!
Personally I put any discrepancy down to retconning...or JMS not really caring all that much (not that I blame him.) I suspect they either didn't fully nail down the system until at least season 2 or they changed their minds at some point. That or 'Major' wasn't Atumbe's rank but his/her given name. Some parents can be so cruel.
As for Major; According to Copeland it's right above Captain and below Lt. Col. If anyone has trouble with that, go take it up with him!
Personally I put any discrepancy down to retconning...or JMS not really caring all that much (not that I blame him.) I suspect they either didn't fully nail down the system until at least season 2 or they changed their minds at some point. That or 'Major' wasn't Atumbe's rank but his/her given name. Some parents can be so cruel.
I realize that Copeland said that, but if it didn't show onscreen, it never happened. (I can only remember one instance of an Earthforce Major giving orders to a Captain, and that was in an unproduced Crusade script. So again, it didn't happen.) The implication in the early episodes seemed to be that in Earthforce, Major was between LT. and LTCDR. Look at these:
- Lianna Kemmer, for example (can't remember the episode she was in). She was just a kid. Obviously not any kind of senior officer. And Ivanova seemed to be pulling rank on her.
- Major Krantz, from Babylon Squared, saluted Sinclair and obviously deferred to him. Also, Krantz's XO on B4 (Cousin Brucie) was only a Lieutenant. And if Major is such a high rank, why would they assign one to simply oversee the construction crew? (Remember, Krantz wasn't intended to be B4's permanent CO.)
- Major Ryan (Severed Dreams). He didn't give Sheridan orders or appear to outrank him in any way.
- And there's Atumbe, of course. If an EF Major is above a Captain, Atumbe would outrank everyone on the station, and this obviously wouldn't work for some night watch second commander. Unless senior officers just loved to hang around the station at night for no good reason.
- We have seen characters promoted from Lieutenant JG to full Lieutenant (Corwin), Lt. Cmdr. to full Commander (Ivanova), and Commander to Captain (again, Ivanova), so Major can't fall in between any of those. The only thing that's left, and which fits with all the examples I just gave, is between LT. and LTCDR.
You want to know how I might retcon all of this, though?
- Lianna Kemmer, for example (can't remember the episode she was in). She was just a kid. Obviously not any kind of senior officer. And Ivanova seemed to be pulling rank on her.
- Major Krantz, from Babylon Squared, saluted Sinclair and obviously deferred to him. Also, Krantz's XO on B4 (Cousin Brucie) was only a Lieutenant. And if Major is such a high rank, why would they assign one to simply oversee the construction crew? (Remember, Krantz wasn't intended to be B4's permanent CO.)
- Major Ryan (Severed Dreams). He didn't give Sheridan orders or appear to outrank him in any way.
- And there's Atumbe, of course. If an EF Major is above a Captain, Atumbe would outrank everyone on the station, and this obviously wouldn't work for some night watch second commander. Unless senior officers just loved to hang around the station at night for no good reason.
- We have seen characters promoted from Lieutenant JG to full Lieutenant (Corwin), Lt. Cmdr. to full Commander (Ivanova), and Commander to Captain (again, Ivanova), so Major can't fall in between any of those. The only thing that's left, and which fits with all the examples I just gave, is between LT. and LTCDR.
You want to know how I might retcon all of this, though?
If you believe the closing credits of the final episode, the entire run of B5 was a 'holo-deck' re-creation done by the Rangers decades after the fact. So this rank crap would be just one of the things they got wrong. EF's "real" rank system would probably be something that actually makes SENSE, such as having the blue-shirts have a pure Navy rank system and the other two branches, Marines and Security, having a 'ground' rank system.
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Nope. Not going there. You can't make me!
I concluded long ago that it was an honorary rank awarded to night shift workers to qualify them for a shift differential.
Jan
A long time ago, I decided Major was a special rank within Security. Kimmer and the others all did some sort of security function. It's never really clear where Major Ryan started before taking over for Hague, right?
They have their own uniform colors, which sometimes get worn while other times they go with a general EF scheme. It seems to be flexible, allowing the individual to pick which version of the uniform they want to wear. Perhaps Major is the equivalent of Lt Commander, within the security chain?
^ Nice idea but I don't think you'd get a security specialist taking command of a destroyer in the middle of a battle, even if he's the most senior officer aboard. Plus, Ryan was giving orders to a Lt. Cmdr.
You might be along the right lines though as Copeland said Admirals are parallel to Generals but have a different set of responsibilities. So perhaps Majors are a "niche" rank across all branches of EF (not just security) and officers can basically skip it depending on their assignment. So Lochley for example may have gone from Capt straight to Lt Col given her position. Of course it's all just speculation. Copeland's letter in the official mag is the closest thing we have to a canon explanation and all that tells us is that Major is between Captain & Lt Colonel.
You might be along the right lines though as Copeland said Admirals are parallel to Generals but have a different set of responsibilities. So perhaps Majors are a "niche" rank across all branches of EF (not just security) and officers can basically skip it depending on their assignment. So Lochley for example may have gone from Capt straight to Lt Col given her position. Of course it's all just speculation. Copeland's letter in the official mag is the closest thing we have to a canon explanation and all that tells us is that Major is between Captain & Lt Colonel.
^Or they do have their own logic, just never bother to explain it since that's not what the show was about.
And things can change in a couple hundred years.
^That too.
For my money, none of the supposed irregularities directly contradict Copeland's version and the only real problem is Major Atumbe. Still even that isn't a huge problem since it's a name that was uttered *once* in passing and never again, so if need be it can easily be written off as an honest mistake.
For my money, none of the supposed irregularities directly contradict Copeland's version and the only real problem is Major Atumbe. Still even that isn't a huge problem since it's a name that was uttered *once* in passing and never again, so if need be it can easily be written off as an honest mistake.
^ I suppose Atumbe could have simply been visiting the station on his way somewhere else. He could have been waiting for the next shuttle out of there, and in the meantime, he was available to take command if anyone needed him.
Or he could have been on the station on temp assignment to lead some Starfury training exercise OR was the CO of a small contingent of gropos out on rotation. Really given that we know *nothing* about Atumbe other than he exists it could be any one of dozens of possible explanations. Hell, for all we know Ivanova was so pissed off she had a simple slip of the tongue.
You're missing some zeroes there. Lots of zeroes. Well, it's all priceless to me, anyway.
Jan
Interesting. I see someone on the set dressing team was a George Lucas fan.
